2019 PCC rules

[dmshozer1]

What is the rule on weak side strong side PCC,

Stage brief said first array free style, second array weak hand "shoulder" one string.

First PCC shooter did not go weak shoulder on the second array.

Discussion followed. No one had a way to check it at the time.

[ABQautoxer]

Weak hand requires PCC to shoot shouldered on weak side and trigger pressed with weak hand.

[Mcfoto]

1.1.5.3 Standard Exercises and Classifiers may specify shooting with the strong hand or weak hand unsupported for handgun divisions and strong or weak side for PCC. The specified hand must be used exclusively from the point stipulated for the remainder of the string or stage. Stage procedures may never require the PCC to be fired using only one hand.

 

From the Glossary:

 

Weak side

PCC: Opposite of Strong Side. The carbine is mounted to the shoulder on the weak side of the body and trigger must be pulled with the weak hand. A shooter must utilize the same side of their body as the weak side for the duration of the match.

[Tampa-XD45]

Also:  

8.2.4.1 A course of fire must never require a competitor to start with the carbine held on the weak side, and stage briefings may never require the PCC to be fired using only one hand.

[RAINY0DAYS]

For a weak side string, you can start on your weak side right? An RO last year made me transition from right to left hand on a classifier and pretty sure that wasn't right.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[JZELEK]

Just shot CM 03-11 El Strong & Weak Pres last club match.

Written Stage Briefing for PCC only specifies for string 2 "weak shoulder only ".

Shot it from weak shoulder and used strong hand to pull trigger.

No mention of weak hand to pull trigger so not required. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by JZELEK

[HoMiE]

6 minutes ago, RAINY0DAYS said:

For a weak side string, you can start on your weak side right? An RO last year made me transition from right to left hand on a classifier and pretty sure that wasn't right.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
 

Correct

[Mcfoto]

8.2.4.1 A course of fire must never require a competitor to start with the carbine held on the weak side, and stage briefings may never require the PCC to be fired using only one hand.

 

 

[HoMiE]

10 minutes ago, JZELEK said:

Just shot CM 03-11 El Strong & Weak Pres last match.'

Written Stage Briefing for PCC only specifies for string 2 "weak shoulder only ".

Shot it from weak shoulder and used strong hand to pull trigger.

No mention of weak hand to pull trigger so not required. 

Pretty sure on classifiers all mentions of weak side, weak hand and weak shoulder all require PCC to be fired with weak finger. 

 

The glossary says weak hand is same as weakside and special note: this applies to classifiers in all instances. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by HoMiE

[HoMiE]

7 minutes ago, Mcfoto said:

8.2.4.1 A course of fire must never require a competitor to start with the carbine held on the weak side, and stage briefings may never require the PCC to be fired using only one hand.

 

 

Can’t require to start on weakside but you can if you want to. 

[George16]

4 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

Pretty sure on classifiers all mentions of weak side, weak hand and weak shoulder all require PCC to be fired with weak finger. 

 

The glossary says weak hand is same as weakside and special note: this applies to classifiers in all instances. 

This is correct. 

 

Did this when I shot Baseball Standards during last month’s match. 

[dmshozer1]

Thanks for the information,

Found the the rules for everything but could not for PCC.

Where are you looking?

[mveto]

The rules for PCC are listed along with all the other rules in the 2019 competition rules. Just need to look through the rule book, however appendix D8 pertains to PCC.

[dmshozer1]

31 minutes ago, mveto said:

The rules for PCC are listed along with all the other rules in the 2019 competition rules. Just need to look through the rule book, however appendix D8 pertains to PCC.

Thanks

[dmshozer1]

5 hours ago, HoMiE said:

Can’t require to start on weakside but you can if you want to. 

Where are you finding these rules?

Went to D.8 but nothing is said about what you guys are referring me too.

[ChuckS]

3 minutes ago, dmshozer1 said:

Where are you finding these rules?

Went to D.8 but nothing is said about what you guys are referring me too.

Chapter 8 The Course of Fire.

[Mcfoto]

Beauty of it being PDF: use the search and type PCC. Hit enter again to go to next. 

[dmshozer1]

7 hours ago, Mcfoto said:

Beauty of it being PDF: use the search and type PCC. Hit enter again to go to next. 

Got it,

Thanks

[JZELEK]

On 4/12/2019 at 12:49 PM, HoMiE said:

Pretty sure on classifiers all mentions of weak side, weak hand and weak shoulder all require PCC to be fired with weak finger. 

 

The glossary says weak hand is same as weakside and special note: this applies to classifiers in all instances. 

CM 03-11 El Strong & Weak Pres written description for PCC specifically says "weak shoulder only ".

No mention of "weak hand only" so RO's didn't enforce it.

USPSA needs to correct this classifiers course description if it does indeed contradict the new rules. 

[bgary]

I wonder if that's an old (?) version of the classifier diagram?

 

The diagram on the USPSA site for 03-11 clearly says "strong hand only" and "weak hand only", which is consistent with the terms defined in the Rulebook appendix....

 

EDITED to add - the procedure on the diagram is correct.  The procedure in the WSB (on the next page) is not consistent.  I'll pass it along.

 

Bruce

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by bgary

[ABQautoxer]

I think the 2018 version said that? I'd have to find a copy of the old rules and compare

[XD Niner]

On 4/13/2019 at 9:00 PM, bgary said:

I wonder if that's an old (?) version of the classifier diagram?

 

The diagram on the USPSA site for 03-11 clearly says "strong hand only" and "weak hand only", which is consistent with the terms defined in the Rulebook appendix....

 

EDITED to add - the procedure on the diagram is correct.  The procedure in the WSB (on the next page) is not consistent.  I'll pass it along.

 

Bruce

 

 

 

 

This is exactly the wording contained in the 2016 Classifier Manual.  I doubt it was changed in 2018 and then changed back later. 

[bgary]

Yeah... the stage procedure in the diagram is correct (and has been the entire time PCC has existed, as far as I can tell).

 

It's the WSB on the second page that is the issue.  The WSB says "strong shoulder" and "weak shoulder"... terms that are not defined in the rules at all.

 

I've raised it with DNROI and he says he's going to fix it. 

 

Bruce

[dmshozer1]

Wow,

I opened a can of worms!

[Flatland Shooter]

1.1.5.3 Standard Exercises and Classifiers may specify shooting with the strong hand or weak hand unsupported for handgun divisions and strong or weak side for PCC. The specified hand must be used exclusively from the point stipulated for the remainder of the string or stage. Stage procedures may never require the PCC to be fired using only one hand.

 

Right or wrong, we used this rule to require weak shoulder PCC to also require weak hand.