IPSC classifier CLC-69 - newbie question

[Bonfa]

Hello,

 

as a new shooter (started last year) i will have my first IPSC classifiers this summer.

 

I am therefore studying the stage set-ups, even reproducing some for dry fire practice. Classifier 69 (see attached diagram - credits: ipsc-tech.org) puzzles me as regards how to shoot it.

 

Stage begins with 3 far open targets, 23 meters/75 feet, to be engaged from position A 'with a minimum of two round each', then reload and proceed to position B, same string, and so forth up to position D. Total rounds to be scored is 8 per target.

Based on my skill level, shooting from 23 meters/75 feet will give me bad splits and potential mikes (not to mention the added challenge of a first DA shot). Next station is the same, at 14 meters/45 feet, which is probably more than what I am used to shoot in competition. Positions C and D give me confidence of hitting the target reliably in controlled pairs.

 

Now, I will  ask a question without being cheeky about it: i shoot and compete for fun, i am not looking for shortcuts, but rather to elaborate a strategy including make up shots.

 

Is it allowed to point and shoot rapid pairs engaging the targets from positions A and B, and engage from C and D with 3 or 4 shots each target? This would make it likely to obtain the required minimum 8 hits on each target. The efficiency would be brought by comparing splits obtainable at differing distances: I can shoot 4 shots at 7 meters faster and more reliably than 2 shots at 23, so I am better off doing it.
 

Fact: Would this comply with the stage instructions/IPSC rules?
 

Opinion: Would you consider this to be sporting behaviour?

[waktasz]

This is why it's stupid they got rid of Virginia count.

 

Nothing wrong with doing what you are planning to do.  I'd probably plan to shoot some extra makeups from the 7 yard position also. 

[elguapo]

Sporting behavior is do not cheat.  If you have unlimited shots at each distance to get the required hits, blaze away.

[Bonfa]

1 hour ago, waktasz said:

This is why it's stupid they got rid of Virginia count.

 

Yeah this is in fact a relevant consideration I did not mention in the OP: IPSC handgun rules only foresee Comstock scoring (rule [Jan 2019] 9.2.1).

 

Under Virginia, what I thought would make less sense.

[DKorn]

Rules wise, it seems to be allowed, but I’m more familiar with USPSA rules than IPSC so there might be something I’m missing. 

 

Strategy wise, it comes down to the added time for the “makeup” shots up close versus the time saved by aiming less from far away. To me, the best strategy is probably to shoot each string as well as you can, and then look at the targets before the last string and shoot extra shots if needed. I’m assuming this is separate strings like a USPSA classifier and not all one long string with multiple reloads?

[Bonfa]

24 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Sporting behavior is do not cheat.  If you have unlimited shots at each distance to get the required hits, blaze away.

 

This seems to be the case, and after all, IPSC is freestyle, so any solution which solves a problem without breaking a rule should be ok...

 

Of course there is an obligation to engage targets with at least one shot (rule [Jan 2019] 10.2.7), failing which one procedural + applicable misses are applied. So of course in this scenario, no less than six shots should be fired from each box.

 

Would be an interesting call for a RO to observe six shots discharged into the berm without noticeable shift of the aiming axis: in this case could two procedurals be inflicted? Considering that, from box A, the vertical centerline of two adjacent targets would be spread 137 MoAs, that would require judging an arm movement of 2.3 degrees: a very tough call.

[Bonfa]

22 minutes ago, DKorn said:

To me, the best strategy is probably to shoot each string as well as you can, and then look at the targets before the last string and shoot extra shots if needed. I’m assuming this is separate strings like a USPSA classifier and not all one long string with multiple reloads?

Sorry I probably used the word 'string' carelessly, but no, this would be under Comstock so CoF time is from beep to the last of the minimum 24 shots, with three mandatory reloads.

In fact I am training myself not to look at holes in the paper nor listen to metal, but rather call the shots - so in this scenario and under Comstock, I would rule out trying to count the holes and assume all misses from the farthest shoot boxes.

[elguapo]

51 minutes ago, Bonfa said:

Would be an interesting call for a RO to observe six shots discharged into the berm without noticeable shift of the aiming axis: in this case could two procedurals be inflicted? Considering that, from box A, the vertical centerline of two adjacent targets would be spread 137 MoAs, that would require judging an arm movement of 2.3 degrees: a very tough call.

 

I think you're overthinking this.  Just run the far targets at whatever pace you think you need for a good hit factor.  As you get closer you can start to see misses during your make ready period and can decide who needs to be shot more.

 

Don't worry about the RO or procedurals.  Concentrate on what you can control.

[DKorn]

47 minutes ago, elguapo said:

 

I think you're overthinking this.  Just run the far targets at whatever pace you think you need for a good hit factor.  As you get closer you can start to see misses during your make ready period and can decide who needs to be shot more.

 

Don't worry about the RO or procedurals.  Concentrate on what you can control.

 

This is what I was originally recommending, but it’s actually all one string per the OP, so you’d pretty much have to decide ahead of time whether you need makeups or not. 

[Chili]

As has been stated this is a single string so there is no time to peruse the targets after the beep.  The most common gaming of this classifier (in Canada due to 10 round mags other places may differ) is to burn your 6 rounds from 25 yards literally as fast as possible while moving the gun across the targets, then make sure you get two hits on each at 15, at 10 you take a makeup on targets 1 , 2 & 3 as well as your 2 shots and then at 7 you take the makeup on targets 1,2& 3 as well as your 2 per target.  A lot of lower class shooters will end up just emptying the gun at 7 when the A zone looks like it needs more hits. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by Chili

[Bonfa]

13 hours ago, Chili said:

As has been stated this is a single string so there is no time to peruse the targets after the beep.  The most common gaming of this classifier (in Canada due to 10 round mags other places may differ) is to burn your 6 rounds from 25 yards literally as fast as possible while moving the gun across the targets, then make sure you get two hits on each at 15, at 10 you take a makeup on targets 1 , 2 & 3 as well as your 2 shots and then at 7 you take the makeup on targets 1,2& 3 as well as your 2 per target.  A lot of lower class shooters will end up just emptying the gun at 7 when the A zone looks like it needs more hits. 

 

Thanks Chili, you sum it up nicely, and what you say confirms my assumptions.

Perhaps I am too particular about this, but spray and pray shooting is not my idea of competitive shooting. Ok, swingers excepted

I may as well end up shooting the targets at the best of my abilities at all distances, and let the splits be what they will be.

Was it in Ben Stoeger's book I read about paper classification vs. realistic one? This classifier seems a practical application of that concept.

 

[elguapo]

42 minutes ago, Bonfa said:

Perhaps I am too particular about this, but spray and pray shooting is not my idea of competitive shooting.

 

That's the beauty of IPSC.  We can choose our own way within the bounds of the rules.  For others who want to be told how, IDPA is that way -->