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new witness accuracy ###


chetc
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have a new witness elite match, purchased it 3 yrs ago, took it out a few times, so far i have tried the 115, 124 and 147gr bullets, accuracy is POOR, at 25yds 5in and more groups are common, my CZ 75B will shoot around 3in, my Canik will almost one hole, i wonder if this a common problem, are there any good barrels out there, is there something i may be missing on why it won't shoot.

 

chet

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That's an atypical experience.  Poor accuracy is not a "known issue" with Tanfo's in general or the Match models in particular (just to the contrary, in fact).  You may have an individual lemon.  Any particular shape to the groups?  

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i will look into larger dia bullets, and give it a try, i love the gun. if the larger bullets don't work. hmm. either a new barrel or trade it in on something else, maybe a gen 5 34 MOS, any thoughts on the 34

 

 

chet

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3 minutes ago, ATLDave said:

For guns that are both full-sized semi-autos chambered in 9mm, those two guns are about as far apart as you could get.  

hi dave

how would i take as far apart as possible. how would one describe that, i mainly do target shooting. i know the witness is all steel vs the poly gun. would a 34 be as accurate as a good witness. what am i missing before i make any dumb moves.

 

chet

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1 hour ago, chetc said:

hi dave

how would i take as far apart as possible. how would one describe that, i mainly do target shooting. i know the witness is all steel vs the poly gun. would a 34 be as accurate as a good witness. what am i missing before i make any dumb moves.

 

The CW would be that the Tanfoglio will be slightly more mechanically accurate, and the trigger should start better and can be made much better than a Glock can get. 

 

You may have gotten a lemon.  It's perfectly reasonable to decide you don't want to deal with a maker that sold you a lemon (although they all sell a few).  But there's no particular reason to expect a Glock generally to be more accurate than a randomly chosen Tanfoglio Match.  

 

This is a little like having bought a sports car that has a bad cylinder and then buying a Chevy Silverado in order to go faster.   

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i took the gun apart today, and the crown looked terrible, not sure if this is the accuracy problem, but i chucked the barrel in the lathe and re machined it to the same angle, it looks great now, i hope it helps the accuracy, i also have some .357 dia 148gr round nose coated bullets to try. hope it shoots.

 

 

chet

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3 hours ago, chetc said:

i am curious, if all fails, if the barrel does not shoot, would CZ look at this barrel and possibly replace or repair at no cost

 

chet

CZ has nothing to do with your EAA Tanfoglio.

CZ and Tanfoglio parts dont interchange other than a few minor parts.

Worse case Patriot Defense is now selling match barrels for Tanfoglios.

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On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 12:16 PM, chetc said:

have a new witness elite match, purchased it 3 yrs ago, took it out a few times, so far i have tried the 115, 124 and 147gr bullets, accuracy is POOR, at 25yds 5in and more groups are common, my CZ 75B will shoot around 3in, my Canik will almost one hole, i wonder if this a common problem, are there any good barrels out there, is there something i may be missing on why it won't shoot.

 

chet

 

Maybe look into your load development for this pistol before you start blaming it?

 

Have you tried any factory premium ammo?

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3 hours ago, chetc said:

i am curious, if all fails, if the barrel does not shoot, would CZ look at this barrel and possibly replace or repair at no cost

 

chet

 

Really?

 

My Ford leaks oil.  I wonder if a Toyota dealer would hook me up with a warranty repair?

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On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 1:32 PM, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

Wasn't there just another posting few weeks ago on the same topic (inaccurate CZ/Tanfo) ?

 

If I had a buck for every person trying to blame their pistol accuracy for their poor shooting I'd be a millionaire

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3 hours ago, elguapo said:

 

Really?

 

My Ford leaks oil.  I wonder if a Toyota dealer would hook me up with a warranty repair?

For enough money they might. Toyota Dealer " You just need to trade in your Ford for a Toyota "🤣

 

3 hours ago, elguapo said:

 

If I had a buck for every person trying to blame their pistol accuracy for their poor shooting I'd be a millionaire

But its easier to blame the equipment than practicing live & dry firing.

 

OP What is your OAL?

Tanfo requires a shorter oal than CZ

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7 hours ago, elguapo said:

 

Maybe look into your load development for this pistol before you start blaming it?

 

Have you tried any factory premium ammo?

 

7 hours ago, elguapo said:

 

Really?

 

My Ford leaks oil.  I wonder if a Toyota dealer would hook me up with a warranty repair?

 

7 hours ago, elguapo said:

 

If I had a buck for every person trying to blame their pistol accuracy for their poor shooting I'd be a millionaire

 

 

Wow do you feel better now?   Way to be so helpful!?!  Seriously is that how you talk to people that ask for help in your life?  Are you that rude to people face to face?

 

Ever consider the op may have just made a mistake in naming CZ since he had mentioned them given its a clone or maybe does not understand the relationship between CZ and Tango (which is none other than Tango being based off the CZ design.)

 

Maybe asking questions about his typical group sizes he is capable of vs just about flat out accusing him of having no idea about any of in a very sarcastic way from some perceived position of superiority?

 

I do believe the OP stated he could shoot very tight groups with his Canik which should indicate he has enough skill to shoot better groups.    Of course someone could always ask how it was shooting those groups but then where the fun in that when you can just be insulting and rude!?!

 

Maybe I am missing it but please show me where the Op has done anything to show arrogance or lack of appreciation for the help given etc???

 

Was it when it thanked the responders with actual recommendations  and took and applied those recommendations?  People said to try larger bullet sizes and he stated to be proceeding to do that and was thankful for the recommendation.

 

Was it when you stated he had tried all the popular bullet weights on a few different range sessions.  In the same post he gave clear evidence he was capable of much better groups with other guns?

 

Was it when he mentioned checking the barrel and noticing the crown was bad and then showed he has at least certain level of experience given he recrowned his barrel and stated in a manor that he was familiar with the process??

 

Was it when he politely asked for help for info on how to fully disassemble his gun? 

 

OR was it just the one mistake he made in his comments asking about what the manf of the barrel would do if the barrel was proven defective but made a mistake in the name of the manf??  

 

Oh yes was a arrogant jerk lets just his S#@T for that.

 

That covers EVERY post you made in response to the OP.  Well other than the one you edited out and if your other comments are any indication that would have been a real peach as well.

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i want to blame myself thinking CZ, my bad, i have not tried premium factory ammo, i can give it a try, i did load some 148gr rn tonight, as for the person who ask about the oal, this barrel is short chambered, the OAL of the rn bullet is 1.070 about .010 off the lands, i hope the gun shoots better, it is smooth and the trigger is great, far from my striker pistols, i would like to make it work my wife shoots my CZ 75 B SA good vs the striker pistols she is back on target faster and seems to be more Accurate, she currently is shooting a Walthers PPQ, she may be taking my CZ LOL

chet

ps, if all fails i may get a patriot defense barrel, i never fit a barrel before, that is part of the reason, i am a retired toolmaker/machinist i may give it a try if needed.will get back after next trip to the range

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ON accuracy, here are some thoughts...

 

If the bullets are contacting the rifling it can hold the barrel slightly out of full lock. Plunk test all ammo.

 

What is your case diameter at the mouth?  Mine all like as close to 0.3800 for minimum crimp. They also like .356 or .357.

 

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36 minutes ago, chetc said:

i want to blame myself thinking CZ, my bad, i have not tried premium factory ammo, i can give it a try, i did load some 148gr rn tonight, as for the person who ask about the oal, this barrel is short chambered, the OAL of the rn bullet is 1.070 about .010 off the lands, i hope the gun shoots better, it is smooth and the trigger is great, far from my striker pistols, i would like to make it work my wife shoots my CZ 75 B SA good vs the striker pistols she is back on target faster and seems to be more Accurate, she currently is shooting a Walthers PPQ, she may be taking my CZ LOL

chet

ps, if all fails i may get a patriot defense barrel, i never fit a barrel before, that is part of the reason, i am a retired toolmaker/machinist i may give it a try if needed.will get back after next trip to the range

If the bullet is getting stuck in the lands it can cause accuracy problems but you say your .010 from the lands.

I would try some different brands and profiles of bullets. The profile on most copper plated bullets will allow you to load longer oal.

I use to use Blue bullets 147 round nose but the profile caused me to load down to 1.08 which is shorter than I would like in my tanfo.

I switched to blue 147 flat point which allows me to load out to 1.15 oal but settled on 1.12-1.13 oal

A lot of Tanfo owners will ream the barrel for longer OAL.

If your a machinist you should have no problem doing this.

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took the witness to the range today after i machined the crown, results were positive groups did shrink to acceptable, not quite as tight as the  cz 75B SA, but close, did try the .357 148 gr bullet, not good, 124 and 148gr .356 dia were good, the 165gr .356 dia were fair. going to leave it as it is, wife is happy now and shot some nice 2 in groups standing off hand at 10yds

thanks for the help. was using sport pistol powder, might go back and see if titegroup is any better

 

chet

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I have been considering one of the Patriot barrels myself.  Do not fret the barrel fitting on these guns.  It is much simpler than on a 1911.  Tech its even easier that a gunsmith fit on some of the striker fired guns.  Your experience you will have no issues at all.    Have actually been thinking about looking at one of the 40 cal barrels and use my 10mm reamer to get a nice match 10mm barrel for mine.  I get fairly good groups but I am one of those always looking for more and I like my tools to fit to tight tolerances.  What can I say I like consistency.  Its not practical in terms of competition and cost return but I am an accuracy guy and still enjoy bullseye type shooting.  The only thing in using a reamer is taking a chance of having a small step depending on their reamer spec and wear vs mine.  Usually not an issue though.

 

Glad recutting the crown got your some more accuracy.   Follow what others have recommended and your game plan seem solid.  I have found having my loads COAL just enough to clean the lands so it just makes the "plunk" test (about the same jump you posted unless I measure each round).  That and just barely enough crimp to take the flare away yields best accuracy.   That's been my experience anyways but  others may have differing experiences.   The other thing with 9mm is for best accuracy use new cases.  I always seem to be the best accuracy in both 9mm and 45 using new cases.  Usually starline and sometimes if I am lucky I find lapua for a decent price but its rare.

 

 

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