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Tabasco

Moving to Limited from Production

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Hi Everyone,

 

Going to try Limited this year instead of Production.  For those that made a switch, what were some ah ha moments that you had that helped in making the transition?

 

Cheers

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Why did I wait so long to make the switch?

 

I had to retrain myself not to go for a reload everytime I moved.  And shot faster, you don’t need as many Alphas (assuming you are switching to major).

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Biggest aha for me was that I missed the challenges of minor scoring and stage planning and hitting reloads and needing to hit all the steel with only 1 make up shot available sometimes. With limited it seemed like I was cheating myself out of half the fun of shooting. 

There is no right or wrong, the challenges that make it fun for some are just a nuisance for others. My one bit of possibly useful advice is do not sell your production rig too quickly. 

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11 hours ago, Tabasco said:

Hi Everyone,

 

Going to try Limited this year instead of Production.  For those that made a switch, what were some ah ha moments that you had that helped in making the transition?

 

Cheers

 

Adopt a mindset that it’s often better to shoot Charlies on the move, quick, than to slow your feet down (or post up) and get Alphas.

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Thanks for all the tips!  Yeah, going to be different stage planning with the reloads.  I shoot plenty of charles *wink* so just have to remember to do them more on the move.  Looking to have a fun season trying a new division.

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Posted (edited)

I switched to Limited last year after shooting Production for a long time. I did it in the middle of the season which was probably not the smartest way but I wanted to shoot both divisions at the last Nationals. It affected my performance in both. Stage planning, reloading, and movements are NOT the biggest challenges in my opinion.  Yes, they are all important.  The biggest challenge, however,  is the different recoil impulse. For several months I just could not shoot major with the same speed and the same accuracy. I guess the major scoring has its reasons. I spent a lot of ammo (15K at least ) this winter shooting the dot drills, doubles, and bill drills. Mostly recoil management drills. Finally I feel like I am almost there now. Last weekend, I shot my production gun for a little bit and was happy to see how easy it has become after shooting major for a while. I believe I am a better shooter now because of the switch. One more thing: because switching could be detrimental to the performance at the beginning, it could also hurt your self image. You need to be aware of it and just keep on working.           

Edited by cheby

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I switched to Limited last year after shooting Production for a long time. I did it in the middle of the season which was probably not the smartest way but I wanted to shoot both divisions at the last Nationals. It affected my performance in both. Stage planning, reloading, and movements are NOT the biggest challenges in my opinion.  Yes, they are all important.  The biggest challenge, however,  is the different recoil impulse. For several months I just could not shoot major with the same speed and the same accuracy. I guess the major scoring has its reasons. I spent a lot of ammo (15K at least ) this winter shooting the dot drills, doubles, and bill drills. Mostly recoil management drills. Finally I feel like I am almost there now. Last weekend, I shot my production gun for a little bit and was happy to see how easy it has become after shooting major for a while. I believe I am a better shooter now because of the switch. One more thing: because switching could be detrimental to the performance at the beginning, it could also hurt your self image. You need to be aware of it and just keep on working.           
I've only ever shot Production and I'm new at that but this seems like it would be the biggest transition moving from Production assuming you're shooting minor. A lot of the guys I shoot with shoot Limited. I really don't see much of a difference between they shoot a stage and I do aside from me having to plan for more mag changes. The big difference are those that are shooting major. Managing recoil is going to be the biggest change.

Again, this is just my inexperienced observation. I could be wrong.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

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As stated above, recoil is a thing.  After a lot of work my times are as fast or faster shooting major but still not as accurate.

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I switched in the fall of last year (from production to Limited) and our season is just getting underway now. Not planning a stage around reloads allows me to focus more on the shooting and movement which leads to an overall better experience and performance (for me). In production, I sometimes shot a stage in what felt like an illogical manner because it made sense to do so because of where I wanted to reload. In Limited, I shoot a stage in what feels like the most efficient way and just work in one reload at some point when I'll be moving.

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I made the jump from limited minor to major about 10 matches ago..
minor you do need a high percentage of alphas - so you aim for the A zone on most shots.
IMO for major you just aim for the A-C zone - so you can shoot sooner, and don't have to wait for gun to settle for the 2nd shot, and rarely need to come set unless there is a head shot or small steel.  I've jumped about 10% in match points and sped up 2-4 roughly seconds per stage - but my old friend mike is back in town. 

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On 4/4/2019 at 11:40 PM, B585 said:

Why did I wait so long to make the switch?

 

I had to retrain myself not to go for a reload everytime I moved.  And shot faster, you don’t need as many Alphas (assuming you are switching to major).

This was it for me. I can’t count the times I dropped a mag after shooting 6 rounds and still had 15 in it.

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grip is a thing too.. more so when trying to manage major PF.. and since a charlie is ok there is a real temptation to break my grip and pull off the target too soon.  So when Mike comes back to town I really have to focus on gripping hard.

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Be willing to give up close Charlies to push more speed and remember that you have a lot more ammo 😁

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Posted (edited)

I have only shot Production since starting out in USPSA and a few months ago I thought it might be fun to try out Limited for a change.  I have always poo-pooed hi-cap stage plans since they only have one reload to remember, tons of extra rounds, and they can eat Charlies like a fat kid eats cake.  How hard can that be, right?  A monkey could do it.  Holy crap, was I wrong!  I never realized before how much I use the time I spend on reloads to reorient myself while shooting a stage.  First stage I get a two mike FTSA, followed by several more stages with forgotten stage plans.  I immediately decided Limited wasn't for me and crawled back into the 10-round hole from which I came.  I'm M-class, for pity's sake!  My fragile ego can't handle FTSAs!  As it turns out, it takes a monkey with a reasonably high IQ to immediately remember a 16 target sequence rather than a whole bunch of little 3 or 4 target sequences.  Moral of the story: hi-cap stage plans require a bit more focus and rehearsal than is immediately apparent.

Edited by Tanders

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1 hour ago, Tanders said:

 As it turns out, it takes a monkey with a reasonably high IQ to immediately remember a 16 target sequence rather than a whole bunch of little 3 or 4 target sequences.  Moral of the story: hi-cap stage plans require a bit more focus and rehearsal than is immediately apparent.

 

That's a really good point that, as another production shooter, it never would have occurred to me would be an issue.

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11 hours ago, elguapo said:

That's a really good point that, as another production shooter, it never would have occurred to me would be an issue.

 

Never has been an issue for me, switching back and forth the issue I've had is switching on and  off that subconscious counter that is programmed to reload whenever you have a significant move after shooting more than 6 shots. 

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Since on most stages you're likely to not have to do multiple reloads, make sure you really attack those dead spaces where you're not shooting. Not having to stick a reload at the beginning or end of a movement allows you to be more aggressive and attack the stages more. 

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, elguapo said:

 

That's a really good point that, as another production shooter, it never would have occurred to me would be an issue.

 

I spent 12 years in production, and switched to carryoptics last year.

 

With 24 rounds at the beep, I’d find myself:

 

(1) firing makeup shots at paper much more often - It’s just natural to push more agressively when you first shoot with hicaps: ”My gun has ten spare rounds in it! Time to shoot aggressively on the move without fear.” I didn’t train myself out of this bad habit for months.

 

(2) not being meticulous about knowing my spare number of rounds, nor planning a contingency. “I have 24 in the gun and the front half of the stage is only 17 rounds before the load. I’m good.”

 

Put those two together?

 

You have seven steel and paper you take on the move - and wind up firing four extra shots there because you’re being a pinch too aggressive. Through two other ports, you also fire a couple more makeups on tight hardcover.

 

Next thing you know, you get the dreaded slide-lock on the last shot before your planned mag change. 🙄

 

20-22 in 40, or 22-24 rounds in 9? This is something an ex-production guy has to maintain focus on. Just because your gun holds so many rounds DOES NOT mean poor ammo management cannot screw you over. If anything, I think about it more now than I did in Production.

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic

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1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Next thing you know, you get the dreaded slide-lock on the last shot before your planned mag change.

Ha!  This is so true!  There is nothing more adorable than the panicked and shamed look hi-cap guys get in their eyes when they have to do a standing reload: "I... I don't know what's happening!  I think my gun broke!  I HAVEN'T TRAINED FOR THIS!!!"

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Grip strength plays a big role and don't forget about your non dominant hand. I found when I was really squeezing the gun I started pulling shots. The answer for me was to add more support from the non dominant hand. I love limited wish I started here. 

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I plan to switch to Limited next year for a change of pace.  I have been shooting production for about 4 years.  Last year I switched to Single Stack (major) in December for local matches and to train for the Western States Single Stack Championships in February.  Switching back to production after 3 months of Single Stack gave me a whole new appreciation for shooting minor with 2 more rounds.  Had to be be careful not to think of the two additional rounds as “extra” and employ the philosophy of every stage needs to be the majority A’s with minor scoring.  I believe the experience in Single Stack made me a better production shooter. 

 

That said, it has been my observation that the really good Limited shooters I squad and shoot with don’t think of their hi-cap mags as having extra rounds and don’t tolerate C’s and D’s.

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I went the other way because of a strong shoulder injury.  The biggest thing was follow up shots.  In Single Stack Minor the 

gun settles quicker back to line of sight.  In Ltd Major I had to concentrate more on my grip pressure with the weak hand and

getting the gun back on track for the second shot of a double tap.  For Ltd Major I would practice single shot draws and then

move to double tap draws, keeping the same grip pressure and concentrating on the follow up shot.  Once you get used to the

heavier recoil with Major and the grip and sight picture for double taps you will be a better shooter.  Springing the pistol for your

loads is important as well, but that's another topic.......

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