mwray Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 My New Years resolution was to read a random rule everyday from the uspsa rulebook. Well when I hit 8.5.1 last night I got to thinking that I’ve never seen hardly anyone engage the safety while moving. Is this rule just looked over or are there that many people in violation of this rule? They guy with the Glock doesn’t have to so why should the guy with the 2011 have to? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelson1each Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Says should be engaged. Should means a recommended practice or procedure as opposed to a mandatory word like shall or will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 From the glossary Should - optional but highly recommend It has no weight in the rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 1 hour ago, mwray said: My New Years resolution was to read a random rule everyday from the uspsa rulebook. Well when I hit 8.5.1 last night I got to thinking that I’ve never seen hardly anyone engage the safety while moving. Is this rule just looked over or are there that many people in violation of this rule? They guy with the Glock doesn’t have to so why should the guy with the 2011 have to? Thoughts? No one has to use the safety, just they should. I think this is a recommendation because of liability. They can say we have a rule saying they should use the safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 It pays to read the glossary as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davsco Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 yep, 'should' not equal to 'must.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 If I were king for a day I would delete every rule that says should from the rule book, its a rule book not a recommendation book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKorn Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 2 hours ago, MikeBurgess said: If I were king for a day I would delete every rule that says should from the rule book, its a rule book not a recommendation book It depends- most of them I would get rid of. The ones that are about stage design or match administration can stay, and be used as guidelines for stage approval for bigger matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwray Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 It depends- most of them I would get rid of. The ones that are about stage design or match administration can stay, and be used as guidelines for stage approval for bigger matches. Needs to be more rules on stage design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 59 minutes ago, DKorn said: It depends- most of them I would get rid of. The ones that are about stage design or match administration can stay, and be used as guidelines for stage approval for bigger matches. 8 minutes ago, mwray said: Needs to be more rules on stage design. Attempting to make good stages through the rule book it a fools errand. You cannot direct people to be creative by rule, some will be creative by nature and others will not. If you start making rules against types of stages you or someone else, does not like soon you will be stuck shooting stages that are all alike and most likely all suck. Remember what makes a good match is not shooting your favorite stage 6 times, its shooting a variety of stages that test a variety of skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKorn Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 38 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said: Attempting to make good stages through the rule book it a fools errand. You cannot direct people to be creative by rule, some will be creative by nature and others will not. If you start making rules against types of stages you or someone else, does not like soon you will be stuck shooting stages that are all alike and most likely all suck. Remember what makes a good match is not shooting your favorite stage 6 times, its shooting a variety of stages that test a variety of skills. Agreed, but you can put in place guidelines to help avoid the things that tend to cause problems at major matches. The main benefit of doing so is to make the stage approval process (that has to be gone through anyway for sanctioned major matches) less arbitrary and more transparent for the stage designers and match directors by setting the expectations up front. Of course, this doesn’t have to be in the rulebook- it could also be its own separate document. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 17 minutes ago, DKorn said: Agreed, but you can put in place guidelines to help avoid the things that tend to cause problems at major matches. The main benefit of doing so is to make the stage approval process (that has to be gone through anyway for sanctioned major matches) less arbitrary and more transparent for the stage designers and match directors by setting the expectations up front. Of course, this doesn’t have to be in the rulebook- it could also be its own separate document. agreed, I do think it should be a separate document, for most shooters all the non shooting rules portions of the rule book just get in the way and make them not actually read the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 22 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said: agreed, I do think it should be a separate document, for most shooters all the non shooting rules portions of the rule book just get in the way and make them not actually read the rules. Most shooters and a lot of R.O.'s don't read the rules but think they know them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwray Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 Most shooters and a lot of R.O.'s don't read the rules but think they know them.Agreed! That’s why I’ve started making myself read it every night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, DKorn said: Of course, this doesn’t have to be in the rulebook- it could also be its own separate document. Ask and you shall receive... Kevin Imel wrote a series of excellent articles for FrontSight magazine on the subject. https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2013-07 Part 1, page 22 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2013-09 Part 2, page 18 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display/2013-11 Part 3, page 22 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-01 Part 4, page 20 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-03 Part 5, page 20 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-05 Part 6, page 22 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-07 Part 7, page 22 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-09 Part 8, page 28 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-11 Part 9, page 38 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-01 Part 10, page 24 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-03 Part 11, page 28 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-05 Part 12, page 22 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-07 Part 13, page 28 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-09 Page 24 It's a lot of reading, but lots of very good stuff there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 1 hour ago, ima45dv8 said: Ask and you shall receive... Kevin Imel wrote a series of excellent articles for FrontSight magazine on the subject. Nice. Thanks for putting that together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelson1each Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 I do like the idea of reading a rule a day though ...We all should do that as well. should Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 1 hour ago, nelson1each said: I do like the idea of reading a rule a day though ...We all should do that as well. should I read the rule book before I work a big match, or shoot a big match, probably read the rule book a couple of hundred times if not more. The rules are not hard to understand you just need to actually read them rather than go by what people say is in the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 9 hours ago, bret said: I read the rule book before I work a big match, or shoot a big match, probably read the rule book a couple of hundred times if not more. The rules are not hard to understand you just need to actually read them rather than go by what people say is in the rules. I often read them while on the crapper. The rules are indeed not hard but they can get a bit confusing when actually trying to find a specific item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, ima45dv8 said: Ask and you shall receive... Kevin Imel wrote a series of excellent articles for FrontSight magazine on the subject. https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2013-07 Part 1, page 22 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2013-09 Part 2, page 18 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display/2013-11 Part 3, page 22 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-01 Part 4, page 20 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-03 Part 5, page 20 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-05 Part 6, page 22 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-07 Part 7, page 22 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-09 Part 8, page 28 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-11 Part 9, page 38 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-01 Part 10, page 24 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-03 Part 11, page 28 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-05 Part 12, page 22 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-07 Part 13, page 28 https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-09 Page 24 It's a lot of reading, but lots of very good stuff there. All that needs to be compiled into an official USPSA document. IDPA, for all its f*#k ups, did get something right with its Match Administration book separate from the rule book. While I don't pass judgement on its contents, the concept is solid. Edited April 6, 2019 by elguapo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 6 hours ago, Sarge said: I often read them while on the crapper. The rules are indeed not hard but they can get a bit confusing when actually trying to find a specific item. The more you read them, the easier it is to look them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 On 4/5/2019 at 11:54 AM, MikeBurgess said: Attempting to make good stages through the rule book it a fools errand. You cannot direct people to be creative by rule, some will be creative by nature and others will not. If you start making rules against types of stages you or someone else, does not like soon you will be stuck shooting stages that are all alike and most likely all suck. Remember what makes a good match is not shooting your favorite stage 6 times, its shooting a variety of stages that test a variety of skills. On 4/5/2019 at 12:53 PM, MikeBurgess said: agreed, I do think it should be a separate document, for most shooters all the non shooting rules portions of the rule book just get in the way and make them not actually read the rules. words of great wisdom. we have a lot of rules about stage design not to try to make good stages, but to try to prevent idiots from making retarded stages. It doesn't always work, but it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HCH Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 28 minutes ago, motosapiens said: words of great wisdom. we have a lot of rules about stage design not to try to make good stages, but to try to prevent idiots from making retarded stages. It doesn't always work, but it helps. So very, very, painfully true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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