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8.5.1


mwray
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My New Years resolution was to read a random rule everyday from the uspsa rulebook. Well when I hit 8.5.1 last night I got to thinking that I’ve never seen hardly anyone engage the safety while moving. Is this rule just looked over or are there that many people in violation of this rule? They guy with the Glock doesn’t have to so why should the guy with the 2011 have to? Thoughts?

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1 hour ago, mwray said:

 

My New Years resolution was to read a random rule everyday from the uspsa rulebook. Well when I hit 8.5.1 last night I got to thinking that I’ve never seen hardly anyone engage the safety while moving. Is this rule just looked over or are there that many people in violation of this rule? They guy with the Glock doesn’t have to so why should the guy with the 2011 have to? Thoughts?

 

No one has to use the safety, just they should.

 

I think this is a recommendation because of liability. 

 

They can say we have a rule saying they should use the safety.

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2 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

If I were king for a day I would delete every rule that says should from the rule book, its a rule book not a recommendation book 

 

It depends- most of them I would get rid of. The ones that are about stage design or match administration can stay, and be used as guidelines for stage approval for bigger matches. 

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It depends- most of them I would get rid of. The ones that are about stage design or match administration can stay, and be used as guidelines for stage approval for bigger matches. 

Needs to be more rules on stage design.
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59 minutes ago, DKorn said:

 

It depends- most of them I would get rid of. The ones that are about stage design or match administration can stay, and be used as guidelines for stage approval for bigger matches. 

 

8 minutes ago, mwray said:


Needs to be more rules on stage design.

 

Attempting to make good stages through the rule book it a fools errand. You cannot direct people to be creative by rule, some will be creative by nature and others will not. If you start making rules against types of stages you or someone else, does not like soon you will be stuck shooting stages that are all alike and most likely all suck. Remember what makes a good match is not shooting your favorite stage 6 times, its shooting a variety of stages that test a variety of skills.

 

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38 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

 

 

Attempting to make good stages through the rule book it a fools errand. You cannot direct people to be creative by rule, some will be creative by nature and others will not. If you start making rules against types of stages you or someone else, does not like soon you will be stuck shooting stages that are all alike and most likely all suck. Remember what makes a good match is not shooting your favorite stage 6 times, its shooting a variety of stages that test a variety of skills.

 

 

Agreed, but you can put in place guidelines to help avoid the things that tend to cause problems at major matches. The main benefit of doing so is to make the stage approval process (that has to be gone through anyway for sanctioned major matches) less arbitrary and more transparent for the stage designers and match directors by setting the expectations up front. 

 

Of course, this doesn’t have to be in the rulebook- it could also be its own separate document. 

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17 minutes ago, DKorn said:

 

Agreed, but you can put in place guidelines to help avoid the things that tend to cause problems at major matches. The main benefit of doing so is to make the stage approval process (that has to be gone through anyway for sanctioned major matches) less arbitrary and more transparent for the stage designers and match directors by setting the expectations up front. 

 

Of course, this doesn’t have to be in the rulebook- it could also be its own separate document. 

agreed, 

 

I do think it should be a separate document, for most shooters all the non shooting rules portions of the rule book just get in the way and make them not actually read the rules.

 

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22 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

agreed, 

 

I do think it should be a separate document, for most shooters all the non shooting rules portions of the rule book just get in the way and make them not actually read the rules.

 

Most shooters and a lot of R.O.'s don't read the rules but think they know them.

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8 minutes ago, DKorn said:

Of course, this doesn’t have to be in the rulebook- it could also be its own separate document. 

Ask and you shall receive...

 

Kevin Imel wrote a series of excellent articles for FrontSight magazine on the subject. 

 

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2013-07   Part 1, page 22

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2013-09   Part 2, page 18

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display/2013-11    Part 3, page 22

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-01   Part 4, page 20

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-03   Part 5, page 20

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-05   Part 6, page 22

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-07   Part 7, page 22

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-09   Part 8, page 28

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-11   Part 9, page 38

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-01   Part 10, page 24

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-03   Part 11, page 28

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-05   Part 12, page 22

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-07   Part 13, page 28

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-09   Page 24

 

It's a lot of reading, but lots of very good stuff there.

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1 hour ago, nelson1each said:

I do like the idea of reading a rule a day though ...We all should do that as well. should 😂

I read the rule book before I work a big match, or shoot a big match, probably read the rule book a couple of hundred times if not more.

 

The rules are  not hard to understand you just need to actually read them rather than go by what people say is in the rules.

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9 hours ago, bret said:

I read the rule book before I work a big match, or shoot a big match, probably read the rule book a couple of hundred times if not more.

 

The rules are  not hard to understand you just need to actually read them rather than go by what people say is in the rules.

I often read them while on the crapper. The rules are indeed not hard but they can get a bit confusing when actually trying to find a specific item.

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19 hours ago, ima45dv8 said:

Ask and you shall receive...

 

Kevin Imel wrote a series of excellent articles for FrontSight magazine on the subject. 

 

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2013-07   Part 1, page 22

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2013-09   Part 2, page 18

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display/2013-11    Part 3, page 22

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-01   Part 4, page 20

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-03   Part 5, page 20

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-05   Part 6, page 22

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-07   Part 7, page 22

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-09   Part 8, page 28

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2014-11   Part 9, page 38

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-01   Part 10, page 24

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-03   Part 11, page 28

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-05   Part 12, page 22

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-07   Part 13, page 28

https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2015-09   Page 24

 

It's a lot of reading, but lots of very good stuff there.

 

All that needs to be compiled into an official USPSA document.  IDPA, for all its f*#k ups, did get something right with its Match Administration book separate from the rule book.  While I don't pass judgement on its contents, the concept is solid.

Edited by elguapo
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6 hours ago, Sarge said:

I often read them while on the crapper. The rules are indeed not hard but they can get a bit confusing when actually trying to find a specific item.

The more you read them, the easier it is to look them up.

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On 4/5/2019 at 11:54 AM, MikeBurgess said:

 

 

Attempting to make good stages through the rule book it a fools errand. You cannot direct people to be creative by rule, some will be creative by nature and others will not. If you start making rules against types of stages you or someone else, does not like soon you will be stuck shooting stages that are all alike and most likely all suck. Remember what makes a good match is not shooting your favorite stage 6 times, its shooting a variety of stages that test a variety of skills.

 

 

On 4/5/2019 at 12:53 PM, MikeBurgess said:

agreed, 

 

I do think it should be a separate document, for most shooters all the non shooting rules portions of the rule book just get in the way and make them not actually read the rules.

 

 

words of great wisdom.

 

we have a lot of rules about stage design not to try to make good stages, but to try to prevent idiots from making retarded stages. It doesn't always work, but it helps.

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28 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

 

words of great wisdom.

 

we have a lot of rules about stage design not to try to make good stages, but to try to prevent idiots from making retarded stages. It doesn't always work, but it helps.

 

So very, very, painfully true. 

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