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CO will be dominate division in 5 yrs. 

 

Cheap. 

 

Minor only

 

Less reloading

 

Why shoot production?

 

 

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I think Open will decline soon, the gear is very expensive and many repairs require a gunsmith , for CO and Production, most parts are drop-in.

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On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 11:04 AM, HCH said:

Have any of you noticed an increase in NEW shooters competing in CO? I can think of one or two, but it seems like the vast majority have been in the sport for awhile and have just made the switch. 

 

In my case, I shot my first local USPSA match in CO and thought the 10 round capacity limit was dumb.  Didn't shoot any more USPSA that year.  The following year the mag capacity changed, and I started shooting more USPSA.   

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Had CO been a division a few years earlier, I would have never bought an open gun. 

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18 hours ago, B_RAD said:

Less reloading

 

Why shoot production?

 

Production (and low capacity divisions in general) will always attract the people who want to be rewarded for creativity and efficiency as much as possible. It rewards good stage planning, quick reloads, and boldness in shots more than other divisions. CO/Limited/Open are about going fast, Production is about finding ways to save time. Taking on two papers and a plate rack in CO is not a big deal because missing two shots on the plate rack only costs you the splits and you can reload while exiting the position if needed, whereas in Production that costs you a standing reload. 

 

The 10 round limit isn't super practical now that most full sized pistols come standard with 15+ round mags, but it makes stage planning higher risk/higher reward and I think that is the appeal. If USPSA moved to the 15 round capacity like IPSC I don't think it would be as fun because it would get rid of a lot of those high risk/high reward positions. At that point I'd rather go up to 20 rounds and shoot Limited. 

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59 minutes ago, regor said:

 

Production (and low capacity divisions in general) will always attract the people who want to be rewarded for creativity and efficiency as much as possible. It rewards good stage planning, quick reloads, and boldness in shots more than other divisions. CO/Limited/Open are about going fast, Production is about finding ways to save time. Taking on two papers and a plate rack in CO is not a big deal because missing two shots on the plate rack only costs you the splits and you can reload while exiting the position if needed, whereas in Production that costs you a standing reload. 

 

The 10 round limit isn't super practical now that most full sized pistols come standard with 15+ round mags, but it makes stage planning higher risk/higher reward and I think that is the appeal. If USPSA moved to the 15 round capacity like IPSC I don't think it would be as fun because it would get rid of a lot of those high risk/high reward positions. At that point I'd rather go up to 20 rounds and shoot Limited. 

Appreciate this response for thanks for offering it to the hive mind.

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3 hours ago, regor said:

 

Production (and low capacity divisions in general) will always attract the people who want to be rewarded for creativity and efficiency as much as possible. It rewards good stage planning, quick reloads, and boldness in shots more than other divisions. CO/Limited/Open are about going fast, Production is about finding ways to save time. Taking on two papers and a plate rack in CO is not a big deal because missing two shots on the plate rack only costs you the splits and you can reload while exiting the position if needed, whereas in Production that costs you a standing reload. 

 

The 10 round limit isn't super practical now that most full sized pistols come standard with 15+ round mags, but it makes stage planning higher risk/higher reward and I think that is the appeal. If USPSA moved to the 15 round capacity like IPSC I don't think it would be as fun because it would get rid of a lot of those high risk/high reward positions. At that point I'd rather go up to 20 rounds and shoot Limited. 

 

So does revolver and L10 and SS...

 

I think the attraction to Production was (is) relatively inexpensive guns that are reliable, and cheap ammo. Out of curiosity, how much CO/LIM/Open have you shot? Accuracy is just as important in those divisions; just as speed is a necessity in Production. 

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41 minutes ago, HCH said:

So does revolver and L10 and SS...

 

Hence why I started my comment with "Production (and low capacity divisions in general)". I went on to address production specifically because the comment I replied to asked, "Why shoot production?"

 

42 minutes ago, HCH said:

I think the attraction to Production was (is) relatively inexpensive guns that are reliable, and cheap ammo. Out of curiosity, how much CO/LIM/Open have you shot? Accuracy is just as important in those divisions; just as speed is a necessity in Production. 

 

I am not saying that accuracy is not important in Limited/CO/Open/PCC, nor that speed is not important in Production, I was merely pointing out that the weights for each are different and that difference in weight is what appeals to many Production shooters. Open and PCC do not weight reloads as heavily as Production because they are less frequent. In a long course an open shooter will reload once and it will not be a standing reload. A production shooter on the same course might reload 4-5 times depending on the layout, but they are not 4-5 times slower than Open shooters, so the time spent reloading counts for a higher percentage of their total time than it does for an Open shooter. 

 

The appeal for Production over the other low cap divisions likely is due to the cost of guns and ammo. 

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On 4/7/2019 at 2:01 PM, Smithcity said:

Ill just leave this here for the masses

download_20190407_120059.png

 

I must admit, "open lite" is a lot of fun.

 

Is this nationally?

 

Id be curious of overall division growth over the last 2-3 years as a new shooter seriously tempted by CO. 

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Have any of you noticed an increase in NEW shooters competing in CO? I can think of one or two, but it seems like the vast majority have been in the sport for awhile and have just made the switch. 
I've shot 3 matches in production. That's where I jumped in because my gun fit and I thought that was one of the most competitive divisions. The local match results show more shooters in CO including most of the M and GM shooters. Open has a few and limited has a couple too.

I'll be in CO before my first year is over, because I want to compete in the larger pool against the higher talent, even though they'll destroy me every time.

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12 minutes ago, nick779 said:

 

Is this nationally?

 

Id be curious of overall division growth over the last 2-3 years as a new shooter seriously tempted by CO. 

Yes, nationally. 

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17 hours ago, regor said:

 

Production (and low capacity divisions in general) will always attract the people who want to be rewarded for creativity and efficiency as much as possible. It rewards good stage planning, quick reloads, and boldness in shots more than other divisions. CO/Limited/Open are about going fast, Production is about finding ways to save time. Taking on two papers and a plate rack in CO is not a big deal because missing two shots on the plate rack only costs you the splits and you can reload while exiting the position if needed, whereas in Production that costs you a standing reload. 

 

The 10 round limit isn't super practical now that most full sized pistols come standard with 15+ round mags, but it makes stage planning higher risk/higher reward and I think that is the appeal. If USPSA moved to the 15 round capacity like IPSC I don't think it would be as fun because it would get rid of a lot of those high risk/high reward positions. At that point I'd rather go up to 20 rounds and shoot Limited. 

 

Well explained. Some don't like production because of the added intensity on avoiding make up shots and the importance of reloads and stage planning, some do like it because of exactly the same factors.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Well explained. Some don't like production because of the added intensity on avoiding make up shots and the importance of reloads and stage planning, some do like it because of exactly the same factors.

 

 

Ive shot 4 Production matches so far and done fine in terms of stage planning, but the extreme penalty for missing shots is pushing me towards another division. I thought it would be the most sustainable for me in the long run, but im not so sure. The whole concept of the dot is appealing though.

Edited by nick779

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13 minutes ago, nick779 said:

 

 

Ive shot 4 Production matches so far and done fine in terms of stage planning, but the extreme penalty for missing shots is pushing me towards another division. I thought it would be the most sustainable for me in the long run, but im not so sure. The whole concept of the dot is appealing though.

Don’t be fooled, it’s just as easy to miss with a dot. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Don’t be fooled, it’s just as easy to miss with a dot. 

 

Im thinking mag size limitation mainly. Im already fighting against hard target focus as it stands.

 

Im not blaming my gear by any stretch of the imagination, im just trying to figure out where I fall and "Open Lite" looks to be a ton of fun, and it might help with my focusing issues.

Edited by nick779

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22 minutes ago, nick779 said:

 

 

Ive shot 4 Production matches so far and done fine in terms of stage planning, but the extreme penalty for missing shots is pushing me towards another division. I thought it would be the most sustainable for me in the long run, but im not so sure. The whole concept of the dot is appealing though.

 

Maybe I am a masochist. Before P I was ss major and the  only thing I miss about ss major is 8 rounds instead of 10 and the feeling that you needed to make every shot count. 

 

Going to 10 rounds seems almost way too easy :) . 

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13 minutes ago, nick779 said:

 

Im thinking mag size limitation mainly. Im already fighting against hard target focus as it stands.

 

Im not blaming my gear by any stretch of the imagination, im just trying to figure out where I fall and "Open Lite" looks to be a ton of fun, and it might help with my focusing issues.

With a dot you want to focus on the target so your hard focus issue will come in handy.👍😊

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Just now, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Maybe I am a masochist. Before P I was ss major and the  only thing I miss about ss major is 8 rounds instead of 10 and the feeling that you needed to make every shot count. 

 

Going to 10 rounds seems almost way too easy :) . 

 

Dont get me wrong, I still enjoy it, but I want a more "pure" shooting experience without the minor vs major scoring penalty. That and I have some Gear Acquisition Syndrome myself.

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My first match of the year this past weekend (Ohio) seemed to have an increase in CO shooters. Back half of '18 the monthly matches had 5-10% CO shooters and this past weekend was at 14%.

 

I'm interested in doing it, but my main reason isn't for the optic, it's for minor scoring only with more than 10 round mags.

 

image.png.8eedcb18d58c39b929323f9774cf3065.png

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I'm already bored with CO, think 2019 will focus on something else.  Have a really nice 1911 in 9mm that is a tack driver or maybe go back round to Revolver or maybe bring out the Limited gun?  Just not CO.

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22 hours ago, regor said:

 

Hence why I started my comment with "Production (and low capacity divisions in general)". I went on to address production specifically because the comment I replied to asked, "Why shoot production?"

 

 

I am not saying that accuracy is not important in Limited/CO/Open/PCC, nor that speed is not important in Production, I was merely pointing out that the weights for each are different and that difference in weight is what appeals to many Production shooters. Open and PCC do not weight reloads as heavily as Production because they are less frequent. In a long course an open shooter will reload once and it will not be a standing reload. A production shooter on the same course might reload 4-5 times depending on the layout, but they are not 4-5 times slower than Open shooters, so the time spent reloading counts for a higher percentage of their total time than it does for an Open shooter. 

 

The appeal for Production over the other low cap divisions likely is due to the cost of guns and ammo. 

All I was getting at is that Production is running strong while the other low cap divisions are dwindling. 

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what is this 'extreme penalty for makeup shots' in production about? When I shoot prod (or ss minor) I only plan to run to 10 rounds once or twice in an average match, so most of the time I have 2-3 makeups per position. That seems like enough.

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I find production/ss much more challeging, than limited. When I,m tiered, feeling lazy or it's going to rain I,ll shoot limited, other wise I enjoy the stage planing and find production/single stack to be more challenging.  I,m in the minority but I think carrying optics should be 10 rounds and am not planning on shooting it until my eyes go.  On a seperate note the 10 round limit would make things even for those states where you can have a mix of shooters some from mag limited states and some from no limit states 

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1 hour ago, Happyfeet said:

I find production/ss much more challeging, than limited. When I,m tiered, feeling lazy or it's going to rain I,ll shoot limited, other wise I enjoy the stage planing and find production/single stack to be more challenging.  I,m in the minority but I think carrying optics should be 10 rounds and am not planning on shooting it until my eyes go.  On a seperate note the 10 round limit would make things even for those states where you can have a mix of shooters some from mag limited states and some from no limit states 

 

They tried that. It sucked. Then they allowed 140’s. CO exploded. 

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