Changed brass now 650 wont seat

[DIYguy]

Been working on load development for the new CZ and last weekend loaded (250) rounds of 9mm using Blazer brass. So far I've been using mixed brass doing small batches until I get the load I want but mixed brass has been major PIA running through the press. Tried loading it up with the same sorted brass and the Blazer ran flawless. As quick as I could crank the arm rounds dropped in the bin. Ran a bit over one hundred of each powder weight till I ran out of Blazer and then hit the range Monday. Every round passed the plunk test and cycled perfect.

Tonight I loaded the brass bin with CBC brass and didn't change anything.

Attached below is a photo of what every round coming off the press looked like. Noticed I wasn't getting as much bell on the case mouth, readjusted the powder drop and bell a bit but still getting messed up cases. WTF??

[858]

It looks like your seating die body may be screwed down too far and is removing the case flare before the bullet is seated.

 

Your primers aren't getting knocked out because your decapping rod isn't set low enough or the primer are getting caught on the pin and pulling back into the pocket. 

[muncie21]

If you're on a 650, you should be able to seat and debell (crimp) in separate stations. 

 

Unless you're loading for a bullseye competition, you should have everything adjusted so that different cases do not significantly impact the final product.  I load 9mm for my CZs using all mixed brass and have never had an issue with the minor variances in OAL, no need to adjust any of the dies either.

[ddc]

 

Blazer brass sizes very easily either because the brass is softer or the case wall is a hair bit thinner.

It's been a while since I investigated that.

 

CBC brass sizing takes a lot more effort and using the Blazer die setting will not give you the same amount of flare.

 

If you have your dies setup ideally for Blazer brass only then you will have to add more flare in order to use CBC brass.

Probably run into the same problem although not quite as bad if you are setup for Blazer and then do a run with S&B.

 

As muncie21 indicated above a lot of guys find a setting that works for most/all of their brass.

 

I'm a little OCD so I sort my brass and toss the headstamps I don't like.

When I get enough to justify a run I adjust my dies as necessary.

Probably overkill for action pistol shooting.

Edited April 1, 2019 by ddc

[DIYguy]

Sounds good ddc.

I don't think you're OCD as I do the exact same thing with my head stamps. In the past I only loaded the Federal brass as that was part of my recycling program. Buy Federal Am Eagle 147gr flat points and recycle them as empty brass. Range brass was separated and have supplies of Win, RP, Blazer and CBC. The rest is all mixed including stuff with the mill stamp.

Started off with (12) quarts of Federal brass and that's what I use for Run -n-Gun but end up walking away from almost (100) cases per week which take a toll on the brass supply. Getting low on Federal and having to start using the other flavors.

I did notice sizing and seating the CBC took more effort but surprised that the exact same setting that worked perfect with the Blazer did not work at all with the CBC. Think I'll try running some Win and see what it does

 

On a related side note... I just made arrangements to pick up 10# of range brass from my gun club @ $1.50 per pound which I've never done before. We'll see what kind of head stamps we find out of that mess.

[NoSteel]

As noted,  you have a few issues going on..  On the primer side your decamping rod needs to be lower.. It may have moved on you when you hit a crimped in primer..  Neen there,  done that.  Tighten it down good and mark it!!  Your case belling or crimp has some issues..  Picture shows some pretty bad bullet damage..  Are the bullets .355 or .358 (9mm or 38)?  What are the bullets manufacturer??

[DIYguy]

Resizing die is set-up so hand tighten until firm contact with shell plate, lower ram and give die a bit more than another 1/4 turn down. Recapping pin has a full 1/4" of pin exposed. Shell plate is set up so hand tighten bolt until plate is tight to ram plate and then back off bolt slightly until plate indexes freely.

Does CBC crimp primers as I'm not aware that they do.

Had plenty of bell with the Blazer, little to none with the CBC.

Berry's plated, .356 147gr FP

 

All the setting were the same, just different brass.

 

[Steve RA]

Sort the brass and keep the brands you like and trade the others to someone that likes them.  Last resort, sell what you don't want as scrap brass - along with all fired primers.  Both bring the same per pound.

[HesedTech]

CBC 9 MM brass has been covered several times on BEF so a search will help you.

 

I load a lot of CBC brass and found these things:

 

 

CBC are not crimped (at least I have never had any show up that way).

Primer pockets are often tighter than others (same with a lot of Winchester BTW).

I use a MBF case expander, powder funnel and the same setting works on all the brands of brass.

The case walls thicken sooner than others, so deep set bullets will bulge case sides more. Worse with .356 and .357 bullets.

 

 

Do you water wash before you decap? It looks like you have water stains and that means primers may get corrosion causing them to stick in the pocket more. If so make sure you dry with heat, in oven or food dehydrator, rather than air dry.

 

Set up the press for the hardest brand you reload.

 

Use a separate seating and taper crimp die if possible. Like others wrote I agree it looks like the brass case hit the crimp portion of a combined die before the bullet was fully seated.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by HesedTech

[DIYguy]

Thanks HesedTech good info

You have my curiosity with the Mr Bullet case expanded funnel. I'm still using the stock Dillon and I do have to occasionally align and hold a bullet as it goes into the seating die.

Using the Dillon powder check in #3 station and the Hornady bullet feeder die in #4, out of stations to do separate seat and crimp, using the Hornady Match Grade seating die which I've been happy with so far.

Yes to water wash before decap. Those casings are part of the accumulating batches of brass I don't load so were from quite a while ago. Different system for wash and rinse now. Now I rinse with RO/DI water (almost distilled) using Armor All wash n  wax and finish off after couple more rinses with RO/DI water again. Dry brass in dehydrator and no spot problems.

[ddc]

6 hours ago, DIYguy said:

Sounds good ddc.

I don't think you're OCD as I do the exact same thing with my head stamps. In the past I only loaded the Federal brass as that was part of my recycling program. Buy Federal Am Eagle 147gr flat points and recycle them as empty brass. Range brass was separated and have supplies of Win, RP, Blazer and CBC. The rest is all mixed including stuff with the mill stamp.

Started off with (12) quarts of Federal brass and that's what I use for Run -n-Gun but end up walking away from almost (100) cases per week which take a toll on the brass supply. Getting low on Federal and having to start using the other flavors.

I did notice sizing and seating the CBC took more effort but surprised that the exact same setting that worked perfect with the Blazer did not work at all with the CBC. Think I'll try running some Win and see what it does

 

On a related side note... I just made arrangements to pick up 10# of range brass from my gun club @ $1.50 per pound which I've never done before. We'll see what kind of head stamps we find out of that mess.

The headstamps you mentioned are basically the ones I see 90% of the time.

Federal is usually similar to Blazer on the "flares easily" end of the spectrup.

CBC is on the other end as you've discovered.

S&B is close to CBC but not quite as stiff.

Win and RP are in the middle.

I load all of those.
I toss the stepped brass and AMERC stamped and anything I don't recognize.

I have noticed occasional steel cases stamped S&B.

[DIYguy]

ddc: Exactly the kind of info that helps, thank you very much for your insite!!!

HesedTech:  My MBF, case expanded, powder funnel just arrived his afternoon (Friday), I'll try and switch out this weekend.

Latest update: The wife's project lists ++ haven't allowed me to get back in the shop to reload so had to declare time. Before dinner purged the CBC casings out of the press and reloaded with the Blazer rounds I was able to recover from the last couple range visits. Didn't change any settings and once again, as fast as I could pump the handle was dropping rounds into the blue bin. After dinner sat in front of the TV and gauged all the rounds and every one passed just fine.

It's not OCD to sort head stamp if it makes this much difference in loading.