Any favorite load for 158-160 gn .38 special that makes minor power factor?

[matteekay]

Doubling back to the load question...

 

I use those SNS 160's and love them. Nice and heavy with a long, tapered ogive. After trying a few loads I settled on 3.7 - 3.8 grains of Titegroup loaded out to 1.505". They make 131-133 PF in a 6" gun and 124 PF in a 4".

 

I don't like TG in short cases (ie. 9mm) but it's pretty mild in the longer .38 brass. It's also such a fast burner that it gets full ignition even at a relatively low drop weight and I haven't noticed any position sensitivity.  

[PatJones]

Doesn't Titegroup make the forcing cone a little hotter than other powders during the reloads?

[RePete]

8 minutes ago, PatJones said:

Doesn't Titegroup make the forcing cone a little hotter than other powders during the reloads?

 

After about 12 rds it's too hot to hold.

[matteekay]

I don’t grab the forcing cone...?


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[RePete]

7 hours ago, matteekay said:

I don’t grab the forcing cone...?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Nor do I, but you can touch it when reloading, grabbing the cylinder which is also very hot.

[pskys2]

In all but 9mm I like using Clays or ClayDot.  At lower pressures it burns cleaner and doesn't get as hot as quick.

[PatJones]

I don’t grab the forcing cone...?


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I load strong hand, the forcing cone sits on the middle finger of my left hand while I run the ejector. It gets a little spicy by the end of one of those double-sized stages like in the Rocky Mountain 300.

[LifeisgoodSteve]

160gr Bayou (.358)

.38 special cases

V320 4.2gr 

Ave. PF 135

 

If ever get the inkling to run Major, I've found the following load fun to shoot with a nice healthy but fun kick:

180gr MBC (.358)

.38 special cases

V340 5.6gr

Ave PF 172

Edited April 23, 2019 by LifeisgoodSteve

[Dr. Phil]

On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 10:53 PM, PatJones said:

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 9:59 PM, matteekay said:

I don’t grab the forcing cone...?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I load strong hand, the forcing cone sits on the middle finger of my left hand while I run the ejector. It gets a little spicy by the end of one of those double-sized stages like in the Rocky Mountain 300.

I load strong hand as well. The falling plate matches that I shoot make the forcing cone very warm @ 4.0 gr Win 231 behind either a 105 Bayou or a 130gr RN bullet in my 929. I just put the double BandAid on my middle knuckle before I even start. Saves waiting for the burn to heal after the match LOL.

[GMM50]

When the gun gets hot, I use a weight lifting glove on my leak hand.  Inexpensive and protects from that heat.

[Vincerama]

On 3/25/2019 at 7:17 AM, eggman said:

My Dillon 550 just will not meter Clay's, e3 or and large flake powder so I've been using RamShot Competition . 

My standard match load is a 165 gr. Ibejihead over 2.8 grs RamShot Competition at 1.53" OAL

for 160 gr. I use 3.0 grs. Competition at 1.53" OAL and for what I think is going to be my new favorite bullet

the 170 gr. NLG RN B&B casting (Tony Moser) I'm using 2.7 grs Competition at 1.54" OAL.

All of these loads will make power factor from a 4" barrel for IDPA with enough extra to knock over steel so they might give you a good starting point to 

work up a load for USPSA power factor.

 

So after months of just doing kid stuff and vacation stuff and too much working, I finally got a chance to get back to some shooting fun.
I decided to use up some of my Ramshot Competition because I have an 8 pounder of it and nothing else to load it in (originally it was to be for .40 S&Whey shoot really nice! I think this is my go-to load for this gun/bullet combo!, but a local competitor mentioned that he could never make major PF with it without exceeding published data). So I used Eggman's load as a guide with my 160gn S&S casting coated bullets. They shoot really nice, but I haven't had a chance to chrono the load yet, but informally, it's a pretty good load and ramshot competition meters like water.

I don't think that load will make minimum power factor though, as it "feels" really light and using Ramshot's load data as a rough ballpark shows it too slow. It needs 781 ft/s to touch 125 pf with a 160 gn bullet. 

I'll load up some clays loads as well next time to see what I can get. For plinker rounds though, the Ramshot Competition is soft, and accurate (but doesn't make min pf).

 

[mwx40x40]

On 4/20/2019 at 11:30 AM, pskys2 said:

In all but 9mm I like using Clays or ClayDot.  At lower pressures it burns cleaner and doesn't get as hot as quick.

This^^^^^ , I used 3.2-3.4grns

[Makicjf]

I loaded 3.4 of Titegroup under the Brazos Precision 158 round nose for steel challenge yesterday.  I didn't measure the oal, just roll crimped into the crimp groove. Out of a 5 inch 627 ,8 shots were from 773-779 from 8 feet.  Not quite 125 pf, but a perfect ICORE load.  If I needed to make minor, I'd simply add another .1 of Tight group and roll.

I've never noticed TG making the cone or the cylinder hot, and I do a strong hand reload where my left hand is around the cylinder and my middle finger near/ against the forcing cone. However, I work with hot metal everyday and have asbestos hands.  If you are going to use TG just load 32 and run them quickly to ensure the cylinder isn't to hot.

Good Luck!

Jason

Edited October 7, 2019 by Makicjf

[RePete]

1 hour ago, Makicjf said:

I loaded 3.4 of Titegroup under the Brazos Precision 158 round nose for steel challenge yesterday.  I didn't measure the oal, just roll crimped into the crimp groove. Out of a 5 inch 627 ,8 shots were from 773-779 from 8 feet.  Not quite 125 pf, but a perfect ICORE load.  If I needed to make minor, I'd simply add another .1 of Tight group and roll.

I've never noticed TG making the cone or the cylinder hot, and I do a strong hand reload where my left hand is around the cylinder and my middle finger near/ against the forcing cone. However, I work with hot metal everyday and have asbestos hands.  If you are going to use TG just load 32 and run them quickly to ensure the cylinder isn't to hot.

Good Luck!

Jason

 

I, too, have asbestos hands, and the cylinder and forcing will get very hot under competition conditions when using TG.

[Bill Sahlberg]

If you want really a clean burning powder so you wont have to scrub your cylinder even once in a 15 stage match use 38 Starline Colt Short brass, Federal small pistol primer and 4.6 gr of Universal Clays under a 356 Montana Gold 130 gr RN bullet at 1.100" OAL. This is accurate to 50 yds, makes minor @ 132PF and leaves no powder residue in cylinder whatsoever! I even shoot 50 yd PPC still with my 5" 627 and have 120K+ downrange and its a shooter!

[Vincerama]

 

 

OK, So I "chronyed" my Ramshot Compeition loads in a 4" S&W 686+. I used a magnetospeed chronograph strapped to the gun, so velocities are at the muzzle. I will be using my 5" 627 for competition, however, I couldn't strap the magnetospeed to the 627 because the 627 PC has an angled underlug right where the strap would hold, the 686 had a full length lug so I could use it.
Anyway, I had previously found Ramshot Competition to be nice shooting with 3.0 gn, but I highly doubted it's power factor, and for good reason. I did not reload more 3.0 gn loads. Here's what I found;

 

Using a Hi-Tek coated 160 gn S&S Casting round nose bullet (I believe sized to .358)  OAL was 1.53 (+- something. Chosen just because that's what someone else used)  All loads were pretty accurate, or as accurate as I can shoot, off hand;

 

(Disclaimer: I'm just reporting my results, in my gun, with my reloading and measuring equipment. These are NOT published. I have not found any published

data for a 160 gn coated bullet using Ramshot with these loads. The closest from the Accurate load sheet is 158gn  HDY XTP (min) 2.9 = 665 fps (max) 3.2 = 739 fps, but that doesn't make minor power factor. I'm shooting these rounds out of a .357 magnum revolver and my loads exceed the closest published data. Accurate does not list a load using Ramshot Competition for either .38 special +P nor .357 Magnum, etc, etc, so on and so forth, don't sue me if you explode)

 

3.2 grains Ramshot Competition
Average velocity = 746.9

SD  = 9.95

Average power factor = 119

 

3.4 grains Ramshot Competition

Average velocity = 774.6

SD = 11.12
Average power factor =124

 

3.6 grains Ramshot Competition

Average velocity = 794.1

SD 9.56

Average power factor = 127.1

 

So ... at 3.6 gns it's ... iffy, since I heard Ramshot Competition is "inversely temperature sensitive" which means that velocity will vary.
I guess powder position might matter too.

Anyway, the 3.6 gns shot pretty accurate and didn't feel bad (subjectively speaking of course). I wouldn't call it clean, not in my guns anyway.

with 160 gns, you need 781 fps to touch 125 pf. Given the data, I would guess that 3.5 gns would probably hit 125 pf, but with nothing to spare.

 

Now, for ME, this is good enough. Hoping that the extra inch of barrel in the 627 will give me a touch more PF, but hey 127 isn't bad for a club match only guy.

 

I just wanted to post some data here to add to the pool of things you might like to try. Since there is so little Ramshot Comp data and not much .38 special data THAT MAKES minimum power factor. Load books all have .38 special loads of course, but they rarely touch the USPSA minimum power factor.

I'll probably stick with the 3.6 gn load for now mostly because I have 8 lbs of Ramshot Competition and I can't find any other use for it as I have nice loads for other calibers with other powders.

I do also have an 8lb keg of Clays so I may venture into some clays loads for comparison.

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Vincerama

[pskys2]

Well most times you get chron'd at a match it will be with a standard photo eye set with a distance of 10 feet from the muzzle.  

1)  Velocity will differ from the muzzle

2) Different makes/types/brands can, and frequently do, chrono different  why we go for a minimum of 130 for a required 125 pf, and it's wise to push that to 135.

3) Inverse Temp sensitive means the velocity DROPS as the ambient temps go UP

4) A 4" vs 5" inch may chrono more or less, why we always chrono out of the gun we will use

 

Clays or ClayDot are the best choices though using a 160 Bayou Coated RN at 1.450 oal I got 740 f/s from my snubbies with 3.6 Clays.  So I'd expect about 780+f/s from my 627.  You will want to try for 820 f/s to be safe.  If it's club level only and you don't expect to get chrono'd 800 f/s will give you 128pf.

 

I found Ramshot Competition to be dirty in 38 SC even at 135 pf.  Usually a powder will get dirtier as the pressure drops, so I didn't take it much further.

 

Most 627 competitors are using Starline 38 short colts and Heathco or TK tight moon clips.  Makes for a real consistent reload.

 

[elguapo]

Everglades 158 gr RNFP plated bullets

5.2 gr of Hodgdon CFE Pistol

R-P cases

Federal small pistol primers

Medium roll crimp at the cannelure, 1.400 - 1.405" OAL

131 power factor

 

Zero copper in both a 627-5 and a 64-5

Yesterday I put 300 of those through my 627 and only near the very end did I have just one clip that didn't drop all the way down.

[ysrracer]

I'm loading Berry's 158gr flat point with 4.2 of Win 231 to an O.A.L 1.44 going 800fps. Clean, soft, fun to shoot.

 

THE ABOVE IS NOT LOADING DATA. ALWAYS USE A PROPER LOADING MANUAL.

[perttime]

N320 should do it easily. https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/?cartridge=41

Even N310 can work, but you need to work up extra carefully because it is scary fast.

[CuttingEdgeAmmo]

On 3/22/2019 at 8:52 PM, Vincerama said:

Hi, maybe this should be in the reloading section, but since 9mm and .38 are lumped together, I thought I'd go directly to the revo shooters and ask.

 

So today I brought my new 627 pc (5" barrel) to the range to break-in. I wanted to make sure everything worked from the factory. (And sad to say I got 3 light strikes on winchester primers ... from the factory!)

 

The only ammo I had was some I loaded up for SASS, and it's basically .38 special loads in .357 magnum cases (they magnum cases are more reliable in a .357 lever gun).

Anyway, I had the standard 158 gn lead semi wadcutters (Bear Creek Moly) with 3.5 gn Bullseye powder (OAL was whatever put the rim into the crimp groove).
and I had the same OAL, primers etc but with 3.5 gns of Trail Boss.

Normally, I'd just shoot the bullseye (powder) load because the Trail Boss load is bunny fart and will in no stretch of the imagination meet minor PF for USPSA. But ... I did notice that my groupings with the Trail Boss were noticibly tighter than the bulleye load. 

Usually I shoot whatever load works OK, but the noticable difference (was it because I wasn't flinching on follow up shots from bunny farts versus seeing the flames of bullseye flash out the cylinder gap?) has me wondering if maybe the load really actually makes a useful difference. So.... I'm asking here what some of your favorite loads are. Now, I get that posting load info is a touchy (liability wise) thing, but maybe just powder recommendations then.

In anticipation of USPSA and moonclip loading, I bought a bunch of 160gn rounds nose coated bullets from SNS (my go to supplier for no real reason other than I've used them for years).
I have jugs of Bullseye, Clays (just clays, not international or whatever), Win 231 (and HP-38 since HP-39 USED TO BE cheaper at Powder Valley than 231 for some reason, but they caught on - my 9mm powder), WST (my .45 acp powder) and some smaller containers with N320, Power Pistol, WSF, Unique, and probably some other stuff I can't recall right now because i'm a hoarder, and of course I have some Trail Boss which I'll reserve for cowboy stuff if I ever get around to going again.

If this really should be kicked to the reloading forum for 9/.38 then mods, please banish it there. However, I'd like to hear the experience of the revo guys.

Oh, and I'll be loading .38 special cases, though I did buy some Long Colt to try (and maybe cut down) later, and someone was very nice and sent me a sample of .38 Short Colt... but never mind the colt stuff for now, I'll be using .38 specials mostly.

Thanks so much in advance!

 

Vince

Our shop has had amazing success with the Win 231 you said you have some of, with 158 grain jacketed bullets.  But that's only relevant to you if you are planning to load to minor power factor (105PF for IDPA with a speedloader last time I checked).  In the extensive round development we've conducted with 158 grain bullets, +P .38 Special groups never group as tight.