Pointing out a gun issue while ROing turns into a DQ situation

[CHA-LEE]

I don't know about others, but when I attend a match I am always looking at peoples guns and mags as they are wearing them. This is primarily from a safety perspective to make sure that nobody has a mag in the gun or the hammer/striker is cocked back. This is especially true first thing in the morning just before the match starts as that is usually when safety issues like that can happen. I have lost count of how many times I have seen someone with a mag in the gun and or hammer cocked while walking stages in the morning before the match. Regardless of being an official RO for the match or not, I will either direct the shooter to the safe area or clear the range to ensure that nobody is down range and force the shooter to show me that the gun is clear and drop the hammer. 

 

The vast majority of the time when I am doing this "Safety Check" while looking at shooters guns or gear everything is safe. But that is also when I usually see an obvious issue with their gun like a rear sight hinge pin coming out, missing front fiber, grip screw gone, holster to hanger screws backing out or something like that. If I see something obviously wrong with their stuff I will tell them to go to the safe area and get whatever the issue is resolved. To me this is common courtesy as we are all there to have fun and enjoy our time on the range in a safe manner. I don't see that as being an advantage or disadvantage from a competition perspective. 

[bret]

6 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

Just to be clear, after the first situation where I interjected my broken front sight fiber findings in the middle of the range commands, I have since stopped doing that all together. Now I only say the official range commands until the final "Range is Clear" then I will mention whatever else is needed. I know that interjecting anything other than official range commands in the middle of the run isn't the way it should be done. I guess I should have made that more clear.

 

My conundrum with this being a prick and not pointing out obvious gun issues after the range is clear, but then don't risk someone doing something stupid to DQ themselves. Or continue to point out obvious gun issues after the range is clear and just accept the fact that some people simply can't refrain from doing something stupid which would result in a DQ.

 

I don't want to be a prick and not say anything, but I also don't want to be an enabler when it comes to people potentially doing stupid stuff that could ultimately get them DQed.

Pointing out a known or suspected gun or equipment issue isn't being a prick, it is being q good sportsman or Range Official.

 

I think it is a good idea to look at people's gear before they shoot a stage, if they are out of compliance with their division,  point it out and give them an opportunity to fix it before shooting the stage, so they don't get bumped to open or shoot for no score.

 

2 years ago at Optic Nationals I worked at Chrono, because I broke my ankle,  a new PCC shooter came to Chrono, said he was shooting for no score because his mag pouches did not comply with the rules, why didn't the r.o. catch this before he shot and told him to get rid of the pouches and get legal ones or put the mags in his pocket. 

 

At Nationals you would think the range officers are the best and things like this would not happen but that isn't the case.

 

I think you did the right thing.

[JonasAberg]

According to the IPSC rulebook, all firearms should be serviceable and safe. If it's something that effects safety - yes, point it out as soon as possible. However, front sight issues are not really a safety concern as such so I'd definitely wait until the course of fire is finished before saying anything.

 

[Nevadazielmeister]

On 3/20/2019 at 3:12 PM, CHA-LEE said:

Both times resulted in justified DQ’s for unsafe gun handling or sweeping, but I still felt like the DQ was my fault because I pointed out the failure on their gun which in turn triggered the shooter to perform the unsafe action.....I know that the DQ’s were 100% supported by the rules so that isn’t in question here. 

 

16 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

I don't know about others, but when I attend a match I am always looking at peoples guns and mags as they are wearing them. This is primarily from a safety perspective to make sure that nobody has a mag in the gun or the hammer/striker is cocked back.

Cha,

 

In BOTH instances you did absolutely NOTHING wrong. At all. Period. 

 

As for speaking during the course of fire. Of course you should, but try to say something that is only safety related. You would be a good RO to mention "finger" or "watch the muzzle" to ensure the shooter understands they are getting close to a DQ. In your first example regarding mentioning the sight was coming loose was okay because he was done with his shots (more or less) and you just wanted to point it out while the gun was unholstered. A totally normal thing to show. If the shooter then commits to sweeping himself or others or breaking the 180, then that is completely on the shooter. The DQ was due solely to shooter's actions that the RO could not have anticipated. 

 

[teros135]

1 hour ago, Nevadazielmeister said:

 

Cha,

 

In BOTH instances you did absolutely NOTHING wrong. At all. Period. 

 

As for speaking during the course of fire. Of course you should, but try to say something that is only safety related. You would be a good RO to mention "finger" or "watch the muzzle" to ensure the shooter understands they are getting close to a DQ. In your first example regarding mentioning the sight was coming loose was okay because he was done with his shots (more or less) and you just wanted to point it out while the gun was unholstered. A totally normal thing to show. If the shooter then commits to sweeping himself or others or breaking the 180, then that is completely on the shooter. The DQ was due solely to shooter's actions that the RO could not have anticipated. 

 

 

Duh! 

[davidb72]

You did nothing wrong, but in the future I would wait until the targets are scored and then mention to them that they might want to GO TO THE SAFE AREA and check their equipment as you noticed that their front fiber is coming out or is lost.

[Mcfoto]

Let me echo that all the suggestions above are great "Monday Morning Quarterback" comments. In no way should the RO take any blame for shooter reactions to comments or observations (after Range is Clear).

 

However, let me share the following: A couple weeks ago, after the Range is Clear, the RO just casually asked "How did you find one of those in a 5 inch barrel?" I was so hyped up on adrenaline, I thought he was telling me something was wrong with my gun and I very nearly pulled the gun back out of the holster to check it! Just throwing it out there that perhaps just after a COF is not the best time to make equipment comments.

[DKorn]

1 hour ago, Mcfoto said:

Let me echo that all the suggestions above are great "Monday Morning Quarterback" comments. In no way should the RO take any blame for shooter reactions to comments or observations (after Range is Clear).

 

However, let me share the following: A couple weeks ago, after the Range is Clear, the RO just casually asked "How did you find one of those in a 5 inch barrel?" I was so hyped up on adrenaline, I thought he was telling me something was wrong with my gun and I very nearly pulled the gun back out of the holster to check it! Just throwing it out there that perhaps just after a COF is not the best time to make equipment comments.

 

Definitely agree that it might be better to wait a little bit after the COF due to adrenaline. At least read the shooter’s body language and see how hyped up they seem. If they seem relaxed, then it’s probably okay to calmly tell them whatever you saw that needs to be fixed; if they seem tense at all, maybe waiting is safer.