Stage planning advice/resources (Production)

[nick779]

Apologies if this is the wrong place to post this. 

 

Im planning on going to my first match this Sunday (if the weather holds) and they just announced their stage plans with pictures. I started looking them over trying to plan out how exactly I want to run the stage, but im finding it to be a much more open ended question than anticipated. Obviously this is part of the fun, but im a bit lost as to where/how to start.

 

So far im trying to narrow down to the fewest number of shooting positions, planning reloads, and trying to figure out angles without breaking the 180. I know safety, following the rules, and go slow is my main focus in my first match however id still like to plan the stage accordingly.

 

Can any of you guys offer some advice or some reading/watching to help me get started?

[BZ919]

Being your first match, don’t over think the stage plan. Focus more on understanding the procedures and being safe. Practice reloads on the move, and movement in all directions, while keeping the muzzle down range and your finger off the trigger. You can do this at home as part of your dry fire practice.

That said, there are a few basic principles to break down a stage. First, consider magazine capacity and create a plan that avoids standing reloads. If faced with a difficult array, allow for make ups without going dry. If you are right handed, try to plan so you are moving left to right when changing mags. Try to avoid having to go backwards. But practice this to be safe, cuz designers will build these into a stage.

But most of all have fun, watch how others run a stage, ask questions, and help with stage resets.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BoyGlock]

“Announced stage plans”? Maybe you mean published stages/cofs. I wont rely on them much. More often they are far from the real stages come match day. Anyway, when in the match proper most probably you wont remember any of them coz your focus will be on the real set up stages. Device plans that are easy and simple for you based on your known skills. 

[davsco]

yeah, wouldn't put too much credence in the stage diagrams.  get there an hour early and walk the stages.  even better, ask the MD if they need help setting up the match and do that.  what are you going to shoot from where and where will you be doing reloads so that you're not standing still while reloading.  at each stage let them know it's your first match and they should let you go last or at least down the roster.  air gun your reloads and make sure your 'muzzle' is def pointing downrange.

[MemphisMechanic]

1. The stages always look different in person. What you plan now won’t carry out on match day.

 

2. Pick the simplest possible stage plan, even if it means knowing you are going to be 2 or 3 seconds slower, or perform an extra reload.

 

(Whether novice or experienced Master shooter... If you aren’t positive you can execute the plan correctly 10 times out of 10, it is the wrong plan for you.)

 

3. Have at least 5 mags on your belt and one in the gun at the buzzer, in Production.

 

4. Ask the MD to squad you with other Production shooters and make sure he knows you are new. Then go find the other guys with 5 mags on their belt in your squad (easy way to ID production shooters) and tell them too. “I want to have fun and be safe, so please give me any pointers on these stages as we go.” Will never get turned away at a USPSA match.

 

90% of us are truly passionate about helping new shooters, and every squad has one or two jerks. Figure out who those guys are, and ask your questions to the others.

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[MemphisMechanic]

What I mean by choosing the simplest stage plan? Consider this ultra-basic stage...

 

 

This is not to scale. Targets 4 and 5 are 10 yards further than the rest, and the front of the shooting box is twice as close to them as the windows in the walls are. Those are way back at the rear of the stage near the XX’s your toes will start upon.

 

(This is what I mean by diagrams NOT revealing the information you need to make a stage plan! It looks short. The lazy course designer doesn’t even have the barrels drawn in that will keep you from seeing 123 and 678 when you’ve run downrange past the walls!  )

 

The veteran Production shooters in your squad are going to shoot either:

 

(1)  4 and 5 at the draw. 1 2 3 moving through the window. reload.  6 7 8.

(2) 1 2 3. reload. 6 7 8. turn and shoot 4 5.

 

What should a novice do? I would encourage you to:

 

(1) draw before you move your feet, keep your muzzle strictly downrange, shoot 1 2 3.

(2) Reload while walking to 2nd wall. Watching your muzzle angle particularly if you are a lefthanded shooter.

(3) Shoot 6 7 8. Reload and move forward.

 

(Don’t forget to keep your gun pointed downrange!) 

 

(4) Move to the front and shoot 4 & 5.

 

That’s what I mean by sticking to the simplest stage plan. Expert shooters will take targets through tiny gaps and at extra-long distances to shave half a second of movement.

 

A new shooter isn’t there to do that. Get as close to each target as you can so that you’ll hit the stupid thing, shoot slow and accurate, and have fun!!

 

KISS. Keep it simple.

Edited March 19, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[Beef15]

Diagrams and stage briefs give you a few useful pieces of information to think about. Number of targets, types of targets, start position, who/sho or any props or circus tricks.

 

I wouldn't plan anything from them just get familiar with that stuff so when you get to the range you can just check the brief real quick to refresh the details and check for changes, then get to the real business of planning and memorizing.

 

Let others know you're new. Don't hesitate to ask what they're thinking plan wise or about anything that you see but maybe don't understand when other folks are running the stages. Have fun.

[phoenixsomd]

42 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

1. The stages always look different in person. What you plan now won’t carry out on match day.

 

2. Pick the simplest possible stage plan, even if it means knowing you are going to be 2 or 3 seconds slower, or perform an extra reload.

 

(Whether novice or experienced Master shooter... If you aren’t positive you can execute the plan correctly 10 times out of 10, it is the wrong plan for you.)

 

3. Have at least 5 mags on your belt and one in the gun at the buzzer, in Production.

 

4. Ask the MD to squad you with other Production shooters and make sure he knows you are new. Then go find the other guys with 5 mags on their belt in your squad (easy way to ID production shooters) and tell them too. “I want to have fun and be safe, so please give me any pointers on these stages as we go.” Will never get turned away at a USPSA match.

 

90% of us are truly passionate about helping new shooters, and every squad has one or two jerks. Figure out who those guys are, and ask your questions to the others.

 

Great advice ^^^

 

Some other thoughts... 1) know how many and where all the targets are located, 2) walk thru your plan as many times as you can during the ~5-minutes your squad has to look over the stage, 3) when it's your turn, the last thing to do before the RO asks "are you ready" is to walk-thru your plan in your mind - eyes closed is even better

 

Another good piece of information that can inform you preparations for a specific match are the starting positions including handgun condition - particularly practice any ones you've new to or aren't proficient with in your DF or LF

Edited March 19, 2019 by phoenixsomd

[Mcfoto]

If this is your first match of any kind, again DON'T SWEAT STAGE PLANNING YET! The goal of a first match is to not DQ. The skill you need to master first is safe gun handling. It's a total bummer to see a new shooter who gets all wrapped up in where to re-load and is done shooting on the second stage when they made a wrong turn and broke the 180.

 

IF you insist, when I shot Production, my MO was to reload every time my feet moved. Stages are set up so that you don't need to engage more than 8 shots at any particular array (to accommodate low cap shooters). That gives you two extra for make up (missed steel, etc.). Keep it simple at first. If you're right handed, go left to right (it will help reload without breaking the 180). There's usually an obvious way to run a stage and a gamer way. Stick to the obvious for now.

 

And I'll echo, don't get married to the published stage plans. I'm on the set up crew for my monthly club match and most times the stages are modified by the MD even after we've got everything up.

 

It's addictive. Have fun!

Edited March 19, 2019 by Mcfoto

[DKorn]

2 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

2. Pick the simplest possible stage plan, even if it means knowing you are going to be 2 or 3 seconds slower, or perform an extra reload.

 

(Whether novice or experienced Master shooter... If you aren’t positive you can execute the plan correctly 10 times out of 10, it is the wrong plan for you.)

 

 

I’ve come to this same conclusion recently. Moving from Production to Carry Optics last year and then back to Production this season, I find myself planning the stage to make the shooting as straightforward as possible and letting the reloads sort themselves out after that. 

 

Many Production and Single Stack shooters plan stages based primarily on round count and reloads. This winds up sometimes forcing them into awkward or convoluted stage plans and is a mistake in my opinion. I’ve started flipping this around- I want a simple plan that makes the shooting flow, regardless of what that does to the round count. Obviously, the reloads play a factor, but they’re no longer my primary concern. 

 

 

For instance, yesterday I was at a match that had a stage with the following arrays:

-4 targets on the left, visible from partway to the left

-4 targets in the middle, visible from most of the middle of the stage

-4 targets on the right, visible through a space between 2 walls. These were positioned such that only 2 of them were visible at a time. The rightmost one disappeared pretty much as soon as you started moving right from the middle of the stage, and was also barely visible from the left side of the stage. 

 

This particular stage was also an unloaded start, so I didn’t want to go to 10 rounds unless I had to. You started sitting in a chair in the middle of the stage. 

 

I saw 2 good plans for Production:

1- Load the gun while moving left. Engage the left array and the rightmost target in the right array. Reload moving to the middle. Engage the middle array and the 2nd target from the right in the right array. Reload moving to the right and engage the final 2 targets. 

2- Load the gun while moving left. Engage the left array. Reload moving to the middle and engage the middle array. Do a standing reload and engage the 2 rightmost targets in the right array. Take 2 steps right and engage the final 2 targets. 

 

Plan 1 is high risk high reward. It shoots to slide lock twice, but avoids a standing reload. This leaves you with zero makeup shots on the first two arrays.  It also adds two wide-ish transitions. Most importantly to me, it’s confusing. You have to break up an array and engage particular targets from particular spots, which is something I tend to prefer to avoid. 

 

Plan 2 has a standing reload, but otherwise is extremely straightforward and easy to execute. It also flows better, at least for me. 

 

[nick779]

2 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

What I mean by choosing the simplest stage plan? Consider this ultra-basic stage...

This is not to scale. Targets 4 and 5 are 10 yards further than the rest, and the front of the shooting box is twice as close to them as the windows in the walls are. Those are way back at the rear of the stage near the XX’s your toes will start upon.

 

(This is what I mean by diagrams NOT revealing the information you need to make a stage plan! It looks short. The lazy course designer doesn’t even have the barrels drawn in that will keep you from seeing 123 and 678 when you’ve run downrange past the walls!  )

 

The veteran Production shooters in your squad are going to shoot either:

 

(1)  4 and 5 at the draw. 1 2 3 moving through the window. reload.  6 7 8.

(2) 1 2 3. reload. 6 7 8. turn and shoot 4 5.

 

What should a novice do? I would encourage you to:

 

(1) draw before you move your feet, keep your muzzle strictly downrange, shoot 1 2 3.

(2) Reload while walking to 2nd wall. Watching your muzzle angle particularly if you are a lefthanded shooter.

(3) Shoot 6 7 8. Reload and move forward.

 

(Don’t forget to keep your gun pointed downrange!) 

 

(4) Move to the front and shoot 4 & 5.

 

That’s what I mean by sticking to the simplest stage plan. Expert shooters will take targets through tiny gaps and at extra-long distances to shave half a second of movement.

 

A new shooter isn’t there to do that. Get as close to each target as you can so that you’ll hit the stupid thing, shoot slow and accurate, and have fun!!

 

KISS. Keep it simple.

 

I very much appreciate the write up. Thats great stuff.

 

1 hour ago, Beef15 said:

Diagrams and stage briefs give you a few useful pieces of information to think about. Number of targets, types of targets, start position, who/sho or any props or circus tricks.

 

I wouldn't plan anything from them just get familiar with that stuff so when you get to the range you can just check the brief real quick to refresh the details and check for changes, then get to the real business of planning and memorizing.

 

Let others know you're new. Don't hesitate to ask what they're thinking plan wise or about anything that you see but maybe don't understand when other folks are running the stages. Have fun.

 

Definitely, I fully intended on coming to the match early to get a bit more acquainted with the flow of the stages. Ive never shot a moving target either and there are a few swingers at this match. Going to definitely be interesting.

 

1 hour ago, Mcfoto said:

If this is your first match of any kind, again DON'T SWEAT STAGE PLANNING YET! The goal of a first match is to not DQ. The skill you need to master first is safe gun handling. It's a total bummer to see a new shooter who gets all wrapped up in where to re-load and is done shooting on the second stage when they made a wrong turn and broke the 180.

 

IF you insist, when I shot Production, my MO was to reload every time my feet moved. Stages are set up so that you don't need to engage more than 8 shots at any particular array (to accommodate low cap shooters). That gives you two extra for make up (missed steel, etc.). Keep it simple at first. If you're right handed, go left to right (it will help reload without breaking the 180). There's usually an obvious way to run a stage and a gamer way. Stick to the obvious for now.

 

And I'll echo, don't get married to the published stage plans. I'm on the set up crew for my monthly club match and most times the stages are modified by the MD even after we've got everything up.

 

It's addictive. Have fun!

 

I definitely need to stay slow and deliberate my first few matches, Im just getting excited. Ive been watching videos of new competitor guides, dq/screwup videos of how and why, critique videos etc. 

 

For the record, this is what im working with: https://imgur.com/a/BC8zgwV

[ATLDave]

As others have said, don't get too wrapped up in trying to pre-plan until you see the stages in person.  The advice to let people know that you're shooting your first match is very important... It is likely that your squad will let you shoot last on most or all of the stages so that you have a chance to see other people's stage plans.  USPSA is full of helpful people, and you should not have difficulty finding one or more people on your squad to help walk you through the stage planning process, explaining what they're trying to do/looking at, and all-out spoon-feeding you a workable stage plan.  

 

Try to avoid plans that require a lot of avoidable uprange movement (a common 180 trap for newer shooters, particularly if a reload is thrown in) or that require a lot of "memory" component (stand here, shoot every other target I can see, stand over here, shoot 2nd and 5th targets available, etc.).  Some of that may be dictated to you by the stage, but don't bite off any more than is necessary to complete the course of fire.

 

Another common suggestion for new shooters in production: register in limited minor for your first match and load up your mags.  Learn how to basically navigate a course of fire safely before you throw in the whole reload-every-time-you-move complication of the capacity-constrained divisions.  You want to make your first foray into the game as low-stress and simple as possible.  

 

One note based on the linked stage diagrams - looks like a few of them may involve tight quarters with you being forced to move the gun between you and walls that don't leave much space.  Be super careful not to point the gun up or down past the 180 during those close movements; beware, too, of sweeping yourself.  I've seen several new-ish shooters point their gun right at their own chin as they squeeze past a tight corner or wall (instant DQ, plus an extremely unsafe situation).  Try to give yourself as much space as possible - even if it means stepping out and back into the fault lines - and maintain a very acute focus on muzzle control until you get into the firing position.  

[regor]

1 hour ago, ATLDave said:

One note based on the linked stage diagrams - looks like a few of them may involve tight quarters with you being forced to move the gun between you and walls that don't leave much space.  Be super careful not to point the gun up or down past the 180 during those close movements; beware, too, of sweeping yourself.  I've seen several new-ish shooters point their gun right at their own chin as they squeeze past a tight corner or wall (instant DQ, plus an extremely unsafe situation).  Try to give yourself as much space as possible - even if it means stepping out and back into the fault lines - and maintain a very acute focus on muzzle control until you get into the firing position.  

 

Yes OP, this is a very good point, especially on the stage below, which from the looks of it is forcing hard leans (especially if you are a lefty). You do NOT need to stay in the shooting area when moving, only to shoot. To avoid all the weaving around the walls and risking potential 180 breaks I would be moving on the right side of all the walls, and engaging the "tuxedo" targets as I stepped back into the shooting area before. I suspect this would be a good bit faster as well (though your focus should just be on safety for this match).

 

To illustrate, this path avoids the potential for breaking the 180 when transitioning from the right side to the left side of the walls:  

 

 

[nick779]

16 hours ago, regor said:

 

Yes OP, this is a very good point, especially on the stage below, which from the looks of it is forcing hard leans (especially if you are a lefty). You do NOT need to stay in the shooting area when moving, only to shoot. To avoid all the weaving around the walls and risking potential 180 breaks I would be moving on the right side of all the walls, and engaging the "tuxedo" targets as I stepped back into the shooting area before. I suspect this would be a good bit faster as well (though your focus should just be on safety for this match).

 

To illustrate, this path avoids the potential for breaking the 180 when transitioning from the right side to the left side of the walls:  

 

 

 

Thanks for the illustration, I keep forgetting I can step out of the shooting area to move, just not shoot.