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An idea to make the weight of the Shadow2 SSP legal


DCSigCZ

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Last week I told a friend an idea that formed in my mind while we were talking about the Shadow2 he just purchased. My idea is to manufacture the S2 with a removable weight part of the lower rail. The pistols that started this idea are the out of production Sig Sauer Sport Series, however, the CZ weight would NOT be entirely at the nose of the pistol as it is on the Sigs.  Instead, the CZ S2 will have a removable weight that is a slim rectangle the full length of the lower rail. Weight attached = heavier pistol that still meets USPSA weight limit. Weight removed = lighter pistol that makes IDPA SSP weight limit.  Shall we start petitioning CZ to make such a pistol?  I think it would sell in high numbers. 

Edited by DCSigCZ
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The Shadow 2 with plastic guide rod and Lok lightweight grips brings it very close to the 43oz mark. all thats needed is some internal slide lightening and some material removed from the frame inside by the rail. Stays SSP legal and production legal.

 

Good luck on CZ doing the weight idea. Idpa is such a small market for them worldwide.

We cant even get the shadow 2 optic version in the US

 

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Thank you for the tips je85. Much appreciated.  With the good reputation the S2 has, I would think they’d sell notably more of them if it was IDPA legal. 

Edited by DCSigCZ
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3 hours ago, je85 said:

The Shadow 2 with plastic guide rod and Lok lightweight grips brings it very close to the 43oz mark. all thats needed is some internal slide lightening and some material removed from the frame inside by the rail. Stays SSP legal and production legal.

 

 

Thanks for this information.

 

Is there any further information on these modifications, including specifics?  By specifics, I mean details on exactly where and how much material to remove from the inside of the frame and slide?  Any gunsmith that is currently performing these modifications?  Any so-modified pistols currently in use by a shooter that would provide specific details?  If a Shadow 2 is modified as described, does it still qualify as an IDPA legal pistol for SSP Division, or do the modifications themselves negate the weight loss?    

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Really hope someone who knows the true answer to the question 45 Raven asked: Does milling material from the slide and frame to lighten it make a pistol (in this case an S2) illegal for IDPA SSP?

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1 hour ago, DCSigCZ said:

Really hope someone who knows the true answer to the question 45 Raven asked: Does milling material from the slide and frame to lighten it make a pistol (in this case an S2) illegal for IDPA SSP?

That should be explicitly covered in the IDPA rules should it not?

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Can I get a ta duh? Actually weighed 42.55 at the Louisiana State IDPA match. SO's kept telling me "That won't make weight at equipment check", I kept saying "Wanna bet?"

 

Shadow-2-weight.jpg

Edited by Jeff O
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40 minutes ago, Jeff O said:

Can I get a ta duh? Actually weighed 42.55 at the Louisiana State IDPA match. SO's kept telling me "That won't make weight at equipment check", I kept saying "Wanna bet?"

 

Shadow-2-weight.jpg

Nice job Jeff!

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, 45 Raven said:

Thanks for this information.

 

Is there any further information on these modifications, including specifics?  By specifics, I mean details on exactly where and how much material to remove from the inside of the frame and slide?  Any gunsmith that is currently performing these modifications?  Any so-modified pistols currently in use by a shooter that would provide specific details?  If a Shadow 2 is modified as described, does it still qualify as an IDPA legal pistol for SSP Division, or do the modifications themselves negate the weight loss?    

8.2.1.2 SSP Permitted Modifications (Inclusive list):
A. Sights may be changed to another notch and post type. Slides may not be machined to accept different style
sights.
B. Grips may be changed to another style or material that is similar to factory configuration and do not weigh more
than 2.00 oz. more than the factory standard weight for that model.
C. Magazine releases, slide stops, safety levers, de-cocking levers, hammers, and triggers, that are stock on one SSP
legal firearm may be used on another SSP legal firearm from the same manufacturer provided they are drop in
replacements. Parts in this list must come factory installed on standard production firearms. Special parts that
are available installed only from a factory custom shop are not eligible in SSP.
D. Recoil spring guide rods and dual spring recoil systems made of material that is no heavier than stainless steel.
E. Frames may be replaced with identical frames from the same manufacturer.
F. A slip-on grip sock and/or grip tape, skateboard tape, etc. may be used.
G. Internal action work may be used to enhance trigger pull as long as safety is maintained (no visible external
modifications allowed).
H. Internal reliability work.
I. Aftermarket extractors and pins may be used.
J. Internal accuracy work.
K. Replacement of barrel with one of factory configuration that uses the original cartridge.
L. Plastic plugs may be used to fill the opening behind the magazine well.
M. Custom finishes may be applied.
N. Stock slide cover plates may be refinished.
O. Slides may be engraved. Engraving is defined as etching into the slide of logos, letters, and graphics no deeper
than the original factory logos.
P. Stippling and texturing may be performed on readily replaceable parts of the grip frame such as replaceable
back straps and replaceable grip panels.
Q. Aftermarket magazines may be used provided they do not weigh more than 1.00 oz. over the same capacity
factory magazine.
R. Aftermarket magazine base pads may be used provided they do not make the magazine weight more than 1.00
oz. over the same capacity factory magazine.
S. Magazine base pads may be modified by reshaping, texturing, or adding bumper pads provided that they do not
make the magazine weigh more than 1.00 oz. over the same capacity factory magazine.
T. Magazines that are longer than stock may be used provided they meet all other division requirements.
8.2.1.3 SSP Excluded Modifications (Non-Inclusive list):
A. Externally visible modifications other than those listed in the Permitted Modifications section.
B. Aftermarket or visibly modified magazine releases, slide stops, safety levers, de-cocking levers, and hammers.
C. Robar-style grip reduction.
D. Add-on magazine well opening.
E. Slide inserts to accommodate a different recoil assembly design.
F. A barrel that uses a different cartridge that is not offered in the original factory model.
G. Customization of the slide by adding front cocking serrations, tri-top, carry melts, and high power cuts.
H. Compensated/ported firearms with non-compensated/ported barrels installed.
I. Checkering or stippling on non-readily replaceable parts of the grip frame.
J. Aftermarket slides.
K. Removing material from the magazine well opening.
L. Aftermarket grip tang extensions or beavertails.
M. Disabling the slide stop.

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SSP

8.2.1.3

A.... No Externally  visible modifications. ( Internal modifications are fine as long as not visible from the outside)

Internal removal of material is fine.

 

Esp allows you to do thru cuts for lightening.

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Thanks for sharing the rules. 

 

The objective of my question was to make certain I understood correctly that in order to reduce the Shadow 2 weight to become IDPA SSP compliant, ALL the material removed was INSIDE the frame and slide, and that after removal of that material, none of the modifications were externally visible. 

 

Upon review of my earlier post, that point was not clear.

 

Now that we have someone that has shown that it can be done, are there any details available regarding WHO did the work, HOW it was done, etc.?

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22 hours ago, 45 Raven said:

Thanks for sharing the rules. 

 

The objective of my question was to make certain I understood correctly that in order to reduce the Shadow 2 weight to become IDPA SSP compliant, ALL the material removed was INSIDE the frame and slide, and that after removal of that material, none of the modifications were externally visible. 

 

Upon review of my earlier post, that point was not clear.

 

Now that we have someone that has shown that it can be done, are there any details available regarding WHO did the work, HOW it was done, etc.?

I dont believe that guys gun is internal modifications. My gun weighs about the same and i had work done by CZC. It looks like he did as well from this picture. I think your just assuming there is not any lightning cuts and its all internal but i dont believe it is. The top of slide most likely has a port cut out same as mine to make weight and it ends up being ESP legal as long as you remove the magazine release pad.

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Jeff,

 

What division were you shooting in?  ESP or SSP??

 

All,

It comes from the factory with the extended mag release; why do you have to take it off?  I shoot IDPA EX.  

 

 

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51 minutes ago, WxGuy said:

Jeff,

 

What division were you shooting in?  ESP or SSP??

 

All,

It comes from the factory with the extended mag release; why do you have to take it off?  I shoot IDPA EX.  

 

 

 

IDPA specifies that you may have a magazine catch extended from the frame up to .200", but it may not have an oversized button (8.1.7D)

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23 hours ago, hurley326 said:

I dont believe that guys gun is internal modifications. My gun weighs about the same and i had work done by CZC. It looks like he did as well from this picture. I think your just assuming there is not any lightning cuts and its all internal but i dont believe it is. The top of slide most likely has a port cut out same as mine to make weight and it ends up being ESP legal as long as you remove the magazine release pad.

There is no cut in the top of the slide and I just shot IDPA SSP Master at the Louisiana State IDPA championship. I'm not tellin' 'em Stuart.  😎

20190320-201948.jpg

 

20190320-203428.jpg

 

 

 

I could shoot either, but prefer SSP.

Edited by Jeff O
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12 hours ago, WhiteDingo said:

 

IDPA specifies that you may have a magazine catch extended from the frame up to .200", but it may not have an oversized button (8.1.7D)

While this may be true, 8.1.7 is in references to modifications only ("The following modification rules apply to firearms in all divisions."). The mag release on the Shadow 2 is as-delivered/stock/factory - so 8.1.7D shouldn't apply here at least per my reading.

 

edit:

and in either case it looks like he took off the factory release anyways - so there's that :) 

Edited by random_guy7531
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6 minutes ago, random_guy7531 said:

While this may be true, 8.1.7 is in references to modifications only ("The following modification rules apply to firearms in all divisions."). The mag release on the Shadow 2 is as-delivered/stock/factory - so 8.1.7D shouldn't apply here at least per my reading.

Nope, .200 period and no oversized button, I'm also an SO and have dealt with this before. Rex Alpha same deal (have one). Checked with HQ.

Edited by Jeff O
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6 minutes ago, random_guy7531 said:

While this may be true, 8.1.7 is in references to modifications only ("The following modification rules apply to firearms in all divisions."). The mag release on the Shadow 2 is as-delivered/stock/factory - so 8.1.7D shouldn't apply here at least per my reading.

 

edit:

and in either case it looks like he took off the factory release anyways - so there's that :) 

 

Very true. But you're assuming IDPA rules make sense, which is a big step in a lot of cases :)

I've heard all sorts of calls at larger matches in regards to equipment and firearms parts, so it's hard to say what the verdict would be at any given match. 

As you pointed out, removing the extended catch would moot this whole discussion.

 

Jeff O, I'm also an IDPA CSO, and he makes a valid point. The rule, as written, is in reference to modification of a firearm. If it comes stock, then it's not really a modification, is it? And oversized in diameter from what point on the catch? The next sentence (8.1.7E) references factory slide machining being allowed, but D makes no such mention of factory or not, so I would agree with the interpretation of not allowed at all. Doesn't mean it makes much sense though. 

Edited by WhiteDingo
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5 minutes ago, WhiteDingo said:

 

Very true. But you're assuming IDPA rules make sense, which is a big step in a lot of cases :)

I've heard all sorts of calls at larger matches in regards to equipment and firearms parts, so it's hard to say what the verdict would be at any given match. 

As you pointed out, removing the extended catch would moot this whole discussion.

 

See pic of mag release above.

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