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165g gr xtreme, 1000+ fps, 9mm luger


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I tried posting this in a suppressor forum and got nothing but negative criticism and safety lectures so I am going to try again here. I know this looks like another post about 9mm major - but its not...


I have an unboosted suppressor which weighs only 5oz. I bought it to practice for USPSA, mainly on my PCC. I have no issues running it on my PCC, or my .45's and .40's. However my 9mm's are a tough nut to crack. I really want to run it on my 509t because I plan to shoot in CO this season and that is the only gun I have set up for this. I practice at a private range but noise pollution is a concern - I really don't want to piss the people off who live within a mile radius of this range. The range is only a 10 minute drive from my house, the rules are "common sense rules" and I normally have the run of the place. The only other option that will allow me to practice at a pace grater than 1 shot per 2 seconds is an hour and some change each way, and club membership.


So... I can not get the 509t to run with CFE and 147 gr bullets at a published max load (4.2 gr) - it still needs more recoil. That load will reset the trigger, but almost never eject a spent case.


VV has a load posted for N105 and 165 gr extreme bullets, and they claim they can get over 1000 fps. I suspect this will produce enough recoil to run the gun, but I cant find N105 anywhere locally.


Has anybody ever tried H110 with 165's in a 9mm luger? I am just looking for a load that will SAFELY push a 165 gr xtreme to 1000 fps. I would prefer it to be relatively clean so I don't gunk up my can too fast - but its not really that big of a deal... I would like to get information from people who have tried it, then when I have a few options - I will go powder shopping. All I have on hand right now is CFE, lilgun, H110 and an old bottle of power pistol.


If after all this, I still cant get the recoil that I need, then I guess I will need to wait another 9 months and spend another 1k on a boosted can.... stupid NFA, all I want to do is practice for competition without disturbing the peace...



Thanks all!

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1 hour ago, himurax13 said:

I didn't see it mentioned, but wouldn't your rig work better with 115/124g at a PF of 140 or more or is the supersonic crack too loud for your situation?


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I like this idea a lot. In theory it should get me very similar recoil energy to what I described. I will try this. Sure it will be a bit louder, but it is way to get some quick information without a bunch of load development. My mind was stuck in subsonic land and I somehow failed to even consider supersonic loads...


49 minutes ago, Dwbsig said:

A max load of power pistol should get you very close to what you want.


This is an issue I have been having - there isn't much published data for 165's in 9mm. The best I can do is look at burn rate charts, compare it to published data and make an educated guess at a starting point. I am not opposed to working outside of published load data, I have done it a lot in the past for various projects - I just know to do it safely, I need to measure my chamber pressures and I do not have access to the equipment to do this stuff at home and probably couldn't get away with doing it at work. When we develop off-the-books loads, we are kind of just playing chicken with ourselves by hoping we luck out and see some kind of over-pressure signs before we hit dangerous pressures. I guess that's just the name of the game...


1 hour ago, 223to45 said:

H110 is way too slow. You probably couldn't fit enough powder in the case.

I run 165's, there isn't much room left.

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 Thats pretty much what I thought. Based on the relative burn rates of vv n105 and H110 - I suspect I wouldn't even get enough powder in there to generate sufficient pressure for proper case expansion.


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I just tried a max load of CFE behind a 124 gr. plated xtreme. Out of my 509t with the can attached:  avg 1181, es 37, sd 14, 9 shots. They almost cycled the gun - meaning that the cases ejected but the slide did not have enough momentum to strip the round from the mag and push it into the chamber. The bullets were stuck half way out of the mag and partially up the feed ramp. I am running the lighter spring that came with the 509t. I think power pistol could get me there but I will have to try that tomorrow. 


I am thinking there may be 2 competing forces here. light fast bullets should in theory get me more recoil to push the slide back, however it will also get me more gas slamming into the baffles of the can which will be pulling the barrel forward and potentially making it harder for the gun to get out of battery in the first place. Just a thought...  

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