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School me on PCC


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2 hours ago, dmshozer1 said:

 

Our guns run,

You assume a lot.

Period

 

Another important detail:

 

How many have you built?

 

I should have clarified my viewpoint: The odds of a guy doing his FIRST build without an experienced guy helping, and having it run? That’s what I’m referring to. 

 

Plenty of guys build a rifle and have it run: you’re probably a good example of this. So is the guy who has won both national championships to date. Max wasn’t running a factory gun in 17 or 18.

 

This will be his first build. That guy always seems to come back after finishing it to post, and have the group resolve a few bugs in the system. In the best case.

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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MemphisMechanic you make a great point.

 

I agree that it makes sense (if you're going to build) to factor in the possibility that you might have problems. You should probably allow an extra cushion of budget, time, and patience. Depending on how badly you need it to run, it might be smarter to just buy the "insurance" of getting a known running product like a JP or MBX. Again, if I had a chance of winning I'd be thinking really long and hard about going ahead and buying that peace of mind.

 

Also, if I lived in a remote area without any nearby gunsmiths or machinists to help me out in a pinch, I'd really hesitate to build. I would not want to start and get stuck with a non-functional project and nowhere to turn. In my particular case, I am lucky enough to live within miles of some great gunsmiths, and plenty of other shooters. I can definitely beg or bribe someone to help if I get in too deep.

 

Since it's just a fun project and I enjoy tinkering then there doesn't seem to be much downside to trying a build. Even if I have an epic fail like cracking a pricey QC10 lower, I probably end up around the same total cost as the JP after replacement parts and labor. I assume there is some overlap between assembling 5.56 AR's and AR9's, so i have some chance of getting it done right the first try, especially thanks to all the fine folks on here kindly giving their expertise and experience. In that case i save a solid chunk of cash and get the satisfaction of doing it myself.

 

I'm selling some stuff this week to fund the PCC project. I'll post on here whichever way I end up going. If I go with the frankenbuild and screw it up too badly then it can be used as a cautionary tale to show others what not to do! I promise to post pictures and give everyone a good laugh.

 

 

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20 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

Another important detail:

 

How many have you built?

 

I should have clarified my viewpoint: The odds of a guy doing his FIRST build without an experienced guy helping, and having it run? That’s what I’m referring to. 

 

Plenty of guys build a rifle and have it run: you’re probably a good example of this. So is the guy who has won both national championships to date. Max wasn’t running a factory gun in 17 or 18.

 

This will be his first build. That guy always seems to come back after finishing it to post, and have the group resolve a few bugs in the system. In the best case.

 

I put my first one together probably 15 years ago,

Just because I wanted one. Got a safe full of .223's that i have put together for 3gun matches.

When the PCC thing caught on I built one for competition. I was the first in my area. My shooting friends asked me what to buy and that started it.

I put a few of them together for friends. Pisses me off when they beat me! Not really.

Soon there were a lot of them to compete against. Did they all run perfect, no. But they were soon running reliably.. Of course we all reload so it

was easy to get them competitive. We all travel to Pa to shoot 3Gun Nation matches to play with the big boys. Fun!

I agree with you about the guy building a PCC for the first time. They can very easy get into trouble. They are a different beast than a gas operated AR.

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, I have a PCC now. Thanks to all who replied, this forum is great. Special thanks to Bwillis for additional assistance.

 

I was originally leaning towards the CMMG guard but I decided to go with a standard AR9 frankenbuild because it's cheap, easy and you have more choices for parts. Here is what I put together:

-Taccom complete upper, 14.5" with pinned and welded comp- not the ULW setup because I didn't like the possibility of denting, bending or snapping off the aluminum shroud.

-QC10 lower, POF trigger

-Taccom extreme bolt and multi-stage buffer with the newer short stroke kit (no wave spring, just a longer delrin spacer that replaces the metal one)

-Holosun HS510c

I already had the optic, grip and stock, so my total out-of-pocket cost was right at $1k thanks to a couple of discounts. I assembled it yesterday and because I got the complete upper and the QC10 lower comes with the bolt catch / mag catch already assembled there was very little to do. After assembly, I threw on some CLP and swabbed out the barrel. The entire process was incredibly painless and I think even the most mechanically inept person could handle it with these components.

 

I took it to the range today for testing and sight-in at 25yd. I put 300 rounds through it with no malfunctions of any kind. I was shooting Blazer Brass 124gr. I wasn't trying to poke tiny holes, but from a kneeling position I was able to hold 2-3" groups of 8-12 rounds at 25yd to verify my zero was solid. I know everything is 1/4moa on the internet but I'm just being honest about my results. If I had gone prone or bench-rested it, and shot 4-5 round groups I probably could have gotten tighter results. I then moved to 10yd and ran some bill drills to get a feel for the recoil, then some transition drills shooting 2 rounds into 6 targets. I was extremely pleased overall. There is more recoil than I had expected for a 9mm, but it's straight back and very short / sharp so the dot doesn't move much at all. I didn't have my timer with me but subjectively I felt very fast in terms of splits.

 

I am extremely pleased with both the QC10 lower and all of the Taccom components. Tim at Taccom picks up the phone himself when you call, which is awesome, and he took the time to help me out when I had questions about different components. After I ordered, he shipped the next day, and I can't say anything but good things about the whole experience. The fit, finish and overall quality of all the parts was top notch and compares favorably to anything else I've seen, including offerings from companies charging far higher prices. The extreme bolt is especially sweet, the coating made cleaning easy after the range. The ramped barrel is great, you can tell it is going to feed reliably just from the orientation of the mag / bullet / ramp. The buffer and short stroke kit are extremely simple but well-made, and it seems like it would be reliable and durable. Again, this is my first AR9 so I can only compare it to the MP5 / AK / AR15, but the speed of the dot bounce and return to target was very very fast compared to other stuff I've shot. It isn't the softest in terms of recoil, but it's a short sharp bounce and right back.

 

The POF trigger was fast, and for the cost I think it's a great option. It feels heavier than the advertised 3.5 pounds but i don't have a pull gauge to measure and it may break in. The reset is good, and it seems like a high-quality and well-made piece. The rubber pads on the bottom of the casing and the KNS pins are both nice touches, especially on a trigger-eating blowback.

 

The Holosun 510c is really nice, I can see why it is so highly recommended for PCC. The window is huge compared to my RMR or aimpoint, and the dot is very bright and noticeably crisper than most other sights I have seen (to my eyes). The small center dot (1moa maybe?) made it easy to get a small point of aim for zeroing but the larger circle made for fast shooting up close. If the battery life is close to advertised and the durability holds up then I'll be very pleased. My biggest concern is scratching or cracking the giant window when I throw the thing into a dump barrel.

 

Complaints: I threw an old magpul stock on, and the darn thing shakes around on the tube, which I hate. Ordering a B5. The standard charging handle is also going, I'll pick up another raptor. The carbon fiber handguard is lightweight, but it's a little more slick than I prefer. I may add some grip tape in a few spots. Summers here get sweaty and i could see the carbon fiber being a problem. Finally, with the short-stroke kit, it can be hard to fully seat a loaded 33rd mag on a closed bolt.

 

I'm going to take it to a match on 4/6 and if there's interest I'll post results, but realistically those will be more about my skill level than the rifle, unless something breaks.

 

Overall I'm very pleased with what I got for the money, and if all the parts prove as durable and low-maintenance as they look, I will be thrilled. Thanks again for the help!

 

 

 

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Nice build. Eyeing one of those taccoms uppers myself. 

 

Grass aint always green on the JPs side... although most of the time is.

 

Bought mine about a year and a half ago. Ive had about 4k flawless rounds...and i do mean flawless. That is after i taped the mag catch day 1.

 

Plunger was stuck on the lower and the catch would "catch" the bolt when shooting around barricades port side.

 

BHO is not a big deal for me so i took it out around the 1.5k mark. Thing wiggled itself loose yesterday.  Binded just enough for me to notice it and work it out with a bit of Kroil. Threw the catch back in...i might take it before next weeks match 🤣🤣🤣

 

JPs customer service is top notch, and thats something to consider. They went out of their way to help out even tho i ended up not sending the gun. Why would i send a 100% reliable gun for something i rather not even have on the gun... 

 

Crowning X or Y or Z mfg king of reliability is comical. The PCC game has its peaks and valleys when it comes to the spread of what works and what doesn't specifically including the builds on the spread. But mech items break sooner or later, same as the finite amount of heartbeats we all have counting down each second... and then its lights out.

 

So until you haven't sent back a new 9k Accuracy International 6.5cm because of a bad chamber job...you haven't tasted gun buying letdown. 

 

Buy or build...PCC is beast.

 

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Alright, I'm 3 practice sessions and 600 rounds into the new PCC. First match on Saturday. I've noticed two things so far: 1) this is going to blow through my ammo supply really quickly; 2) wow do blowbacks get dirty.

 

Can you guys give me the scoop on AR9 cleaning and maintenance please? So far I've just wiped it all down and snaked the barrel, then slapped on CLP.  I'm used to running my AR's wet but it seems like the AR9 needs to be a little more dry. I think I put on a little too much CLP after session 2 and it got really disgusting after today's range trip. This time around I lubed much more sparingly. Does anyone have a good cleaning and preventative maintenance routine that they run through? How often do you clean, what lube in what spots, what parts do I need to keep an eye on and what signs of needing replacement parts should I know?

 

Thank you!

 

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I qtip drebis off trigger grouping and oil(every time I shoot) 

I wipe bcg and pic the exractor and oil(1000-1500) I do oil between cleaning 

I spray cleaner down the barrel turn upside down let sit for 15 min and then snake it add oil (1000-1500)

I pull buffer and weight out oil (1000-1500)

before switching to jhp I had to clean my comp every 500

i use slip2k cleaner and a ultrasonic with Lucas cleaner,

for oil I use Lucas gun oil and Cajun gun works grease 

 

 

Edited by Bwillis
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On 3/13/2019 at 6:27 AM, cecil said:

anyone else experienced the problem B.Willis commented on --- """" Qc10- I had issues with their floating ejector"""""   I just received a Qc10 lower which I noticed has the floating ejector..  I have not started my PCC build .  ..   wonder if I have made a mistake ordering a Qc10 lower...

The reason the ejector is loose is because the bolt that secures it is a little too long and it bottoms out in the hole before it pinches the ejector tightly. Take the bolt out and remove a little material from the tip until it secures the ejector. Then make sure the ejector does not drag against the bolt. It can be bent outward if needed.

My QC-10 Glock lower works flawlessly, I would buy again if I needed one. Hope this helps.👍

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17 hours ago, JGT said:

Alright, I'm 3 practice sessions and 600 rounds into the new PCC. First match on Saturday. I've noticed two things so far: 1) this is going to blow through my ammo supply really quickly; 2) wow do blowbacks get dirty.

 

Can you guys give me the scoop on AR9 cleaning and maintenance please? So far I've just wiped it all down and snaked the barrel, then slapped on CLP.  I'm used to running my AR's wet but it seems like the AR9 needs to be a little more dry. I think I put on a little too much CLP after session 2 and it got really disgusting after today's range trip. This time around I lubed much more sparingly. Does anyone have a good cleaning and preventative maintenance routine that they run through? How often do you clean, what lube in what spots, what parts do I need to keep an eye on and what signs of needing replacement parts should I know?

 

Thank you!

 

It's the same as an AR15.  It doesn't matter how much you lube it it's going to get dirty, so I wouldn't skimp.  The gun will run dirty but it won't run dry.  I shoot MPX and for a piston gas gun it still gets pretty dirty, but I can skip cleaning wayyyy longer than I should and it will still run fine as long as it gets some lube.

 

You're likely already doing most everything you can.  Make sure carbon doesn't build up on the feed ramps or extractor.  If you don't have anti-walk pins keep an eye on them between range trips (had a friend go home early from a match last month when he thought his hiperfire failed, but it was a pin walking halfway out.)  The most likely early points of failure are the trigger springs/disconnector or the firing pin.  Even JP GMRs break firing pins.  Buy an extra or two... they're cheap.  My Eclipse is coming up on 10,000 rounds, and I'm thinking of buying a spare. 

 

Get more ammo.  🙂  I shoot a case a month during the busy season.  

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Congrats. I'm also new to the PCC game. I settled on a Nordic Components complete rifle since all the part to build on to my several other pistols wasn't an option. I'm really stoked with it so far. But if I was to do it over again, I coul have saved a bunch on just a barrel and stock. I am running same main optic with great success and a Firefield secondary optic at 2 o'clock position. Enjoy the ride, I know I am. 

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