egd5 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 You hear the beep--raise the gun up but realize you didn't turn on your dot, or whatever,--before you fire a shot can you stop and ask for a restart, or do you have to carry on through the stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) I'm thinking the moment the beep goes off, you've stated the course of fire and are on the clock. I'd think between "are you ready" and the beep, the shooter can stop and ask for more time. Edited March 12, 2019 by B_RAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rnlinebacker Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 You hear the beep--raise the gun up but realize you didn't turn on your dot, or whatever,--before you fire a shot can you stop and ask for a restart, or do you have to carry on through the stage?"Make ready" command is given to do just that. After RO issues "are you ready?, stanby" and start indication is given whatever drama happens because of your lack of preparedness is on the competitor. There is no restart. I always tell competitors don't rush the make ready time!! That's what you pay your match fee for and it's your time. Take a sight picture, maybe check your dot, CHAMBER a round! Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfoto Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I'm thinking once the buzzer goes off, you're on the clock and turning on an optic is "repairing" and subject to this: 5.7.2 In the event that a competitor’s firearm malfunctions after the Start signal, the competitor may safely attempt to correct the problem and continue the course of fire. During such corrective action, the competitor must keep the muzzle of the firearm pointing safely downrange at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 5.7.6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfoto Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Kraj said: 5.7.6 Yep, that one is better 5.7.6 Where the firearm has failed after the Start signal, the competitor must not be permitted to reshoot the course of fire or string. This includes the instance where a firearm is declared unserviceable or unsafe during a course of fire or string. However, any un-attempted component strings in a Standard Exercise may still be attempted by the affected competitor after the firearm has been repaired, and prior to when match results are declared final by the Match Director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egd5 Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 OK. I was thinking that, but wasn't sure. Although technically it isn't a firearm malfunction but a competitor malfunction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfoto Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Here's your alternative but I think using 5.7.6 is a better outcome: 9.10.3 A competitor who reacts to a start signal but for any reason does not fire a shot or continue the attempt at the course of fire and fails to have an official time recorded on the timing device operated by the Range Officer will be given a zero time and zero score for that course of fire. This constitutes a “Did Not Fire”, or DNF for the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrayfk05 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 How would 5.7.6 even apply? The firearm didn't fail and is not unsafe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 you can ask, but im just going to stand there, I may even wave the timer at you, but if you keep looking at me I will say "If you are finished? unload and show clear" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfoto Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, xrayfk05 said: How would 5.7.6 even apply? The firearm didn't fail and is not unsafe. I think someone could make the argument that it's "unserviceable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mcfoto said: Here's your alternative but I think using 5.7.6 is a better outcome: 9.10.3 A competitor who reacts to a start signal but for any reason does not fire a shot or continue the attempt at the course of fire and fails to have an official time recorded on the timing device operated by the Range Officer will be given a zero time and zero score for that course of fire. This constitutes a “Did Not Fire”, or DNF for the stage. What constitutes reacting? Moving/going for the gun at the beep or drawing the gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfoto Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Just now, B_RAD said: What constitutes reacting? Moving/going for the gun at the beep or drawing the gun? We'll have to ask the OP, but I'm assuming they've discovered the optic is off after drawing and getting the first sight picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Just now, B_RAD said: What constitutes reacting? Moving/going for the gun at the beep or drawing the gun? that is one of the grey areas that the RO has to make a judgment call on. I would say as described by the OP drawing and seeing the dot is off is an easy call, drawing the gun in general would be an easy call, below that it becomes more subjective and you have to make the call using the don't be a dick rule, if you are sure they are gaming you they earn the 0 zero if you think they could have reacted to something else then restart them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mcfoto said: We'll have to ask the OP, but I'm assuming they've discovered the optic is off after drawing and getting the first sight picture. oh and drawing and seeing the dot is off before getting a shot off means either the first target is way way out there or the shooter is going too slow, last time I forgot to turn my dot on I was about 4 targets in thinking I should have seen the dot by now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 It's after the start signal, so he has three choices Shoot it without a dot Waste a chunk of time turning on the optic as long as it is within 2 minutes (5.7.4) Take a zero/DNF for the stage (9.10.3 since a draw to notice there is no dot is reacting) Don't think the firearm is "unserviceable" as it still goes bang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egd5 Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 OK, I use pcc and I was talking about raising the gun up from belt to shoulder. But drawing a pistol would be the same imo. It looks to me like 9.10.3 seems to fit this scenario perfectly. Either way, it's the same outcome. broadside72 has it right I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Let's not parse words. It's not about the shot. It's not about the draw. It's about the BEEP! and the move. Under 9.10.3 where the shooter does not move (didn't hear it for some reason?) the RO has to resolve that little problem but that is unrelated to the dot. 5.7.2 and 5.7.6 do not exclude shooter created "malfunctions". If I were to look down and see my dot is off before the beep, all I have to do is to not be in the correct start position and the RO cannot issue the start signal. But once the BEEP is issued correctly and the shooter twitches, the shooter owns it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Part_time_redneck Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Freestyle means the shooter solves the problem. In this case there is just an additional problem created by the shooter. No different than not chambering a round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattmann Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Happened to me at steel challenge. Ran 3 strings and on 4 my battery died. I did NOT get a reshoot on string 4. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 The first time I shot OPEN (a decade ago), I forgot to turn the damn dot on - ate it - turned the dot on "on the clock" - valuable lesson. A friend forgot to turn the dot on, and shot the COF without a dot - that didn't work out very well either. Now, I have a schedule - make ready : unholster, load mag, chamber round, apply safety, take mag out, load fully loaded mag, confirm round is chambered, sight picture (confirm dot is on), holster Very Slowly so I don't drop the damn gun, put safety on holster and nod "ready". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HCH Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 6 hours ago, B_RAD said: What constitutes reacting? Moving/going for the gun at the beep or drawing the gun? Im going to say any movement towards the firearm or of the firearm. OTOH, we have all seen the older (or just hard of hearing) competitors that don’t hear the start signal and just stand there. THAT would be grounds for a restart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, HCH said: OTOH, we have all seen the older (or just hard of hearing) competitors that don’t hear the start signal and just stand there. I don't just stand there. I usually give the RO a puzzled look over my shoulder. Seems to be happening a little more often lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 18 hours ago, egd5 said: You hear the beep--raise the gun up but realize you didn't turn on your dot, or whatever,--before you fire a shot can you stop and ask for a restart, or do you have to carry on through the stage? You are on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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