Stop before firing a shot

[egd5]

You hear the beep--raise the gun up but realize you didn't turn on your dot, or whatever,--before you fire a shot can you stop and ask for a restart, or do you have to carry on through the stage?

[B_RAD]

I'm thinking the moment the beep goes off, you've stated the course of fire and are on the clock. 

 

I'd think between "are you ready" and the beep, the shooter can stop and ask for more time.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by B_RAD

[Rnlinebacker]

You hear the beep--raise the gun up but realize you didn't turn on your dot, or whatever,--before you fire a shot can you stop and ask for a restart, or do you have to carry on through the stage?

"Make ready" command is given to do just that. After RO issues "are you ready?, stanby" and start indication is given whatever drama happens because of your lack of preparedness is on the competitor. There is no restart. I always tell competitors don't rush the make ready time!! That's what you pay your match fee for and it's your time. Take a sight picture, maybe check your dot, CHAMBER a round!

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[Mcfoto]

I'm thinking once the buzzer goes off, you're on the clock and turning on an optic is "repairing" and subject to this:

 

5.7.2  In the event that a competitor’s firearm malfunctions after the Start signal, the competitor may safely attempt to correct the problem and continue the course of fire. During such corrective action, the competitor must keep the muzzle of the firearm pointing safely downrange at all times.

[Kraj]

5.7.6

[Mcfoto]

1 minute ago, Kraj said:

5.7.6

 

Yep, that one is better

 

5.7.6  Where the firearm has failed after the Start signal, the competitor must not be permitted to reshoot the course of fire or string. This includes the instance where a firearm is declared unserviceable or unsafe during a course of fire or string. However, any un-attempted component strings in a Standard Exercise may still be attempted by the affected competitor after the firearm has been repaired, and prior to when match results are declared final by the Match Director.

[egd5]

OK. I was thinking that, but wasn't sure. Although technically it isn't a firearm malfunction but a competitor malfunction.

[Mcfoto]

Here's your alternative but I think using 5.7.6 is a better outcome:

 

9.10.3  A competitor who reacts to a start signal but for any reason does not fire a shot or continue the attempt at the course of fire and fails to have an official time recorded on the timing device operated by the Range Officer will be given a zero time and zero score for that course of fire. This constitutes a “Did Not Fire”, or DNF for the stage.

[xrayfk05]

How would 5.7.6 even apply? The firearm didn't fail and is not unsafe.

[MikeBurgess]

you can ask, but im just going to stand there, I may even wave the timer at you, but if you keep looking at me I will say "If you are finished? unload and show clear"  

[Mcfoto]

1 minute ago, xrayfk05 said:

How would 5.7.6 even apply? The firearm didn't fail and is not unsafe.

 

I think someone could make the argument that it's "unserviceable."

[B_RAD]

4 minutes ago, Mcfoto said:

Here's your alternative but I think using 5.7.6 is a better outcome:

 

9.10.3  A competitor who reacts to a start signal but for any reason does not fire a shot or continue the attempt at the course of fire and fails to have an official time recorded on the timing device operated by the Range Officer will be given a zero time and zero score for that course of fire. This constitutes a “Did Not Fire”, or DNF for the stage.

What constitutes reacting?  Moving/going for the gun at the beep or drawing the gun?

 

 

[Mcfoto]

Just now, B_RAD said:

What constitutes reacting?  Moving/going for the gun at the beep or drawing the gun?

 

 

 

We'll have to ask the OP, but I'm assuming they've discovered the optic is off after drawing and getting the first sight picture.

[MikeBurgess]

Just now, B_RAD said:

What constitutes reacting?  Moving/going for the gun at the beep or drawing the gun?

 

 

that is one of the grey areas that the RO has to make a judgment call on. I would say as described by  the OP drawing and seeing the dot is off is an easy call, drawing the gun in general would be an easy call, below that it becomes more subjective and you have to make the call using the don't be a dick rule, if you are sure they are gaming you they earn the 0 zero  if you think they could have reacted to something else then restart them.

 

 

[MikeBurgess]

4 minutes ago, Mcfoto said:

 

We'll have to ask the OP, but I'm assuming they've discovered the optic is off after drawing and getting the first sight picture.

oh and drawing and seeing the dot is off before getting a shot off means either the first target is way way out there or the shooter is going too slow, last time I forgot to turn my dot on I was about 4 targets in thinking I should have seen the dot by now

 

[broadside72]

It's after the start signal, so he has three choices

• Shoot it without a dot
• Waste a chunk of time turning on the optic as long as it is within 2 minutes (5.7.4) 
• Take a zero/DNF for the stage (9.10.3 since a draw to notice there is no dot is reacting)

Don't think the firearm is "unserviceable" as it still goes bang.

[egd5]

OK, I use pcc and I was talking about raising the gun up from belt to shoulder. But drawing a pistol would be the same imo. It looks to me like 9.10.3 seems to fit this scenario perfectly. Either way, it's the same outcome. broadside72 has it right I think.

[George Jones]

Let's not parse words.  It's not about the shot.  It's not about the draw.  It's about the BEEP! and the move.

 

Under 9.10.3 where the shooter does not move (didn't hear it for some reason?) the RO has to resolve that little problem but that is unrelated to the dot.

 

5.7.2 and 5.7.6 do not exclude shooter created "malfunctions".

If I were to look down and see my dot is off before the beep, all I have to do is to not be in the correct start position and the RO cannot issue the start signal.  But once the BEEP is issued correctly and the shooter twitches, the shooter owns it.

[Part_time_redneck]

Freestyle means the shooter solves the problem. In this case there is just an additional problem created by the shooter. No different than not chambering a round. 

[mattmann]

Happened to me at steel challenge. Ran 3 strings and on 4 my battery died. I did NOT get a reshoot on string 4.


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[Hi-Power Jack]

The first time I shot OPEN (a decade ago), I forgot to turn the damn dot on - ate it - turned the

dot on "on the clock" - valuable lesson.

 

A friend forgot to turn the dot on, and shot the COF without a dot - that didn't work out very

well either.

 

Now, I have a schedule - make ready :   unholster, load mag, chamber round, apply safety, take mag out,

load fully loaded mag, confirm round is chambered, sight picture (confirm dot is on), holster

Very Slowly so I don't drop the damn gun, put safety on holster and nod "ready".     

[HCH]

6 hours ago, B_RAD said:

What constitutes reacting?  Moving/going for the gun at the beep or drawing the gun?

 

 

 

Im going to say any movement towards the firearm or of the firearm. 

 

OTOH, we have all seen the older (or just hard of hearing) competitors that don’t hear the start signal and just stand there. THAT would be grounds for a restart. 

[Flatland Shooter]

2 hours ago, HCH said:

 

OTOH, we have all seen the older (or just hard of hearing) competitors that don’t hear the start signal and just stand there. 

 

 

I don't just stand there.  I usually give the RO a puzzled look over my shoulder.  Seems to be happening a little more often lately.  

[Sarge]

18 hours ago, egd5 said:

You hear the beep--raise the gun up but realize you didn't turn on your dot, or whatever,--before you fire a shot can you stop and ask for a restart, or do you have to carry on through the stage?

You are on the clock.

[EEH]