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anonymouscuban

Taking the Plunge - Few Questions/Confirmation Needed

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Posted (edited)

I've spent the last few months reading on the web and a couple of reloading books, lurking in this forum and talking to a couple of guys that reload to learn as much as I can about reloading. My press and other equipment arrive today. YAY!!! I've been collecting my brass for several months in prep. I am about to place an order for powder, primer and bullets and I just want to make sure I order the right stuff.

 

I'm looking to make a 9mm Minor PF load that's on the softer side for USPSA. I will be shooting it out of my SP-01 Manual Safety model. I think I've settled on a coated lead bullet.

 

So here's my plan. Would like some confirmation that I'm headed down the righ path here...

 

  1. Based on what I've read, I am leaning towards 147g projectile. My understanding is that the heavier bullet will produce a softer perceived recoil. Does this make sense or should I go 124g? 
  2. I have a coupon for $25 off BBI so thinking of going with their 147g to take advantage of the savings. I've read that this bullet tends to need a shorter OAL in CZs. Should this be a concern or am I good to go?  
  3. I plan on using Tightgroup for my load. Both for the cost but also there seems to be lots of folks using this successfully with coated lead bullets. 
  4. Primers I'm going with Winchester simply because the 3 guys I know all use them. I have the Pro Package installed on my CZ and have shot at least 6000 factory rounds through it of all the common manufacturers. Should I stick to Federal primers or are Winchester Small Pistol Primers OK?

 

Again, would appreciate some feedback on the above to make sure I don't buy a bunch of the wrong stuff. Also would be great if you can pass along any golden nuggets of information that you feel would help. 

 

As always, tons of appreciation for your help. 

Edited by anonymouscuban

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I would consider buying 100 or so bullets in several weights and work up a 9MM minor load for each. Everyone has preferences and you may find you like 124gr loads that are snappier but let you get your sights back on target quicker. Give the 135gr bullets a look as well: a compromise between the 147 and 124gr offerings. You should consider varying recoil spring weight as a final turning action.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

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Sounds like you've set yourself up pretty well.


What ammo do you shoot now?

 

Maybe just make your own version of the factory load you've been successful with?

 

I like the suggestion of trying different weights, but you can quickly go down a rabbit hole where you spend a LOT of time mixing and matching recipes/combinations that in the end turn out to be not too different from a felt recoil perspective.


Good luck.

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Posted (edited)

147s are going to be a bit more difficult to load for the new reloader as they are seated deeper, plus you're shooting a CZ, which typically like shorter OAL. I'd start with 115, 124 or 135 gr.  BBI is great place to get coated bullets, lots of others out there also.

 

If you are able to pop factory primers, no need to go with the softer Federal.  Use what's available and cheap.

 

Spend some time checking your first reloads to ensure they plunk/spin in your barrel and document the dimensions.  If you don't do this, make sure you have a kinetic puller to fix your mistakes.

 

One final note, quite a few new reloaders spend too much time chasing the holy grail of soft, flat shooting reloads.  Trust me, on the clock you won't be able to notice the difference between 125 and 130 PF.  So don't get too hung up on creating the ultimate bunny fart load.

Edited by muncie21

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I load for my son's CZ (S2 and SP01) and my TF Stock 2. Because of the short rifling bullet profiles are important if you are going to load 147s .356 bullets. I have found in 147s Precision Delta FMJ RN load really well and an OAL of 1.14 works perfectly. But because they are FMJ the require a tad more powder and aren't as "soft" as the coated bullets. Out of the CZ 3.5 gr was 135 PF and the Stock 2 130 PF.

 

In coated the Acme 147 FP, .356, also work perfect and are softer than the PD 147 at an OAL of 1.14. Using TG 3.2 gives us just over 130 PF, but I found bumping the PF up to 135 (3.3) was more accurate at 25 yds.

 

Other coated bullets worked, but typically required a shorter OAL (about 1.08) which made loading more difficult.

 

WSPs work fine.

If you can find it, try Sport Pistol powder over TG. I'm switching to it because it is actually slightly cleaner than TG; accuracy and recoil no noticeable difference.

If you have the time order a variety of different sample packs of bullets and find the one which works best for you. 

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I would not use Titegroup with lead or coated bullets.  In fact, I wouldn't use Titegroup at all.  It burns way too hot.

 

Lighter bullets cycle the slide faster and the sights return more quickly, at the cost of a harder hit to the hand.  147s knock down steel better.  One of my buddies shoots 135s and loves them.  It's a good compromise.

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I'm not sure what's so "difficult" about loading 147's, seat them as short as the barrel requires, done.

 

 

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3 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

Sounds like you've set yourself up pretty well.


What ammo do you shoot now?

 

Maybe just make your own version of the factory load you've been successful with?

 

I like the suggestion of trying different weights, but you can quickly go down a rabbit hole where you spend a LOT of time mixing and matching recipes/combinations that in the end turn out to be not too different from a felt recoil perspective.


Good luck.

Honestly, I've been shooting whatever I could get the cheapest. Didn't really care for brand or bullet weight. Blazer Brass, S&B, Fiochi, etc. All factory new, brass cased ammo. I didn't really pay much attention to the ammo I was shooting until recently. I am now shooting a lot more, competing and with all the stupid ammo restrictions here in California, I'm paying more attention to ammo and want to reload. Just makes sense. Last match I shot some Syntech 150g and liked it. I also noticed a lot of the guys at the matches that are reloading are shooting coated bullets. They're a bit more economical so figured it's good for the gander and all that. 

 

4 hours ago, phoenixsomd said:

I would consider buying 100 or so bullets in several weights and work up a 9MM minor load for each. Everyone has preferences and you may find you like 124gr loads that are snappier but let you get your sights back on target quicker. Give the 135gr bullets a look as well: a compromise between the 147 and 124gr offerings. You should consider varying recoil spring weight as a final turning action.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 

Not a bad idea to try a few different grain weights and seeing what I like and what shoots well out my gun. 

 

3 hours ago, muncie21 said:

147s are going to be a bit more difficult to load for the new reloader as they are seated deeper, plus you're shooting a CZ, which typically like shorter OAL. I'd start with 115, 124 or 135 gr.  BBI is great place to get coated bullets, lots of others out there also.

 

If you are able to pop factory primers, no need to go with the softer Federal.  Use what's available and cheap.

 

Spend some time checking your first reloads to ensure they plunk/spin in your barrel and document the dimensions.  If you don't do this, make sure you have a kinetic puller to fix your mistakes.

 

One final note, quite a few new reloaders spend too much time chasing the holy grail of soft, flat shooting reloads.  Trust me, on the clock you won't be able to notice the difference between 125 and 130 PF.  So don't get too hung up on creating the ultimate bunny fart load.

Thanks for the input. As I stated above, I think I'm going to order 124, 135 and 147 to see which I like. Good to know on the primers. Will stick with the Winchester then. I will definitely be plunking!! I read all the stickies on determining the OAL of your specific barrel and such. Want to take my time up front to avoid as many mistakes as possible. 

 

Good advice of not going down a rabbit hole chasing the bunny fart load. Honestly, right now my only goal is to produce rounds that consistently go boom and successfully exit the barrel and hit the target with some reasonable accuracy. Part of the reason I am reloading is out of necessity. They've made it really hard to buy ammo online here in California and come July, they will start doing background checks with every purchase of ammo and tracking how much you bought. Just want to avoid all that mess. 

 

2 hours ago, HesedTech said:

I load for my son's CZ (S2 and SP01) and my TF Stock 2. Because of the short rifling bullet profiles are important if you are going to load 147s .356 bullets. I have found in 147s Precision Delta FMJ RN load really well and an OAL of 1.14 works perfectly. But because they are FMJ the require a tad more powder and aren't as "soft" as the coated bullets. Out of the CZ 3.5 gr was 135 PF and the Stock 2 130 PF.

 

In coated the Acme 147 FP, .356, also work perfect and are softer than the PD 147 at an OAL of 1.14. Using TG 3.2 gives us just over 130 PF, but I found bumping the PF up to 135 (3.3) was more accurate at 25 yds.

 

Other coated bullets worked, but typically required a shorter OAL (about 1.08) which made loading more difficult.

 

WSPs work fine.

If you can find it, try Sport Pistol powder over TG. I'm switching to it because it is actually slightly cleaner than TG; accuracy and recoil no noticeable difference.

If you have the time order a variety of different sample packs of bullets and find the one which works best for you. 

Thanks for the info. I will check out the Sport Pistol powder availability. 

 

1 hour ago, zzt said:

I would not use Titegroup with lead or coated bullets.  In fact, I wouldn't use Titegroup at all.  It burns way too hot.

 

Lighter bullets cycle the slide faster and the sights return more quickly, at the cost of a harder hit to the hand.  147s knock down steel better.  One of my buddies shoots 135s and loves them.  It's a good compromise.

What would you recommend instead of TG for coated lead bullets? Maybe WST or WSF? Sport Pistol like HesedTech suggested? I have read that N320 runs well. Maybe that?

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1 hour ago, 4n2t0 said:

I'm not sure what's so "difficult" about loading 147's, seat them as short as the barrel requires, done.

Maybe 'difficult' is the wrong word.

 

One additional complexity that lighter bullets do not have is potential bulging of the case, near the bullet base, if they get seated where the walls of the case start to taper.  When loading for my CZ, I found there was a point were decreasing OAL would result in this bulge, too much bulge and it won't chamber.

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Since you're just getting into reloading, as many mentioned, there's nothing very wrong with your

plan to get started - you might want to tweak it with different bullet weights, powder, etc.

 

BUT, more importantly :

 

1.  OAL - for each bullet you select, you should run The Plunk Test to determine what is the

                maximum OAL with that particular bullet in your gun/mag.   Change bullet, and you

                should run The Plunk Test again, with the new bullet

2.  "Crimp" - getting this down will save you a lot of problems - too much and you'll lose

                    accuracy - not enough and you'll have feeding problems.

 

I'd definitely try the 124 grain bullets.

 

Depending on your gun and the specific bullet you're trying, you might find that FMJ's feed

more consistently than coated bullets.

 

Good powders to use include WW231/HP38 and N320.   :)

 

Good luck with it, and have FUN   :) 

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15 hours ago, anonymouscuban said:

What would you recommend instead of TG for coated lead bullets? Maybe WST or WSF? Sport Pistol like HesedTech suggested? I have read that N320 runs well. Maybe that?

 Alliant Sport Pistol is an N320 clone.  It will work fine, won't melt your coatings or smoke, and won't burn off your FO front sight.  Alliant e3 is also good, as is WST and Solo 1000.  Powders I would stay away from in 9mm are Clays and Int Clays.  If you are looking for faster speeds, a slower powder like Silhouette is good.

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To avoid troubleshooting headaches,

 

1. Separate brass by headstamp until you find out it doesn't matter for what you are doing.

 

2. Like Jack said, don't overcrimp or you'll be chasing your tail with problems.

 

A lot of people use TiteGroup without issues. Check with the bullet manufacturer to see if TG is OK. The HiTEch coatings do fine with it.

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Posted (edited)

To answer the question about 147s difficulties goes like this:

 

9mm is a tapered cartridge and the brass gets thicker as it moves towards the base. 

147s are longer than Standard and thus will seat deeper in the casing.

depending on the OAL needed and the bullet diameter, .356 and up, will bulge the case at the shorter OALs.

Additionally some brass, think CBC, will get thicker closer to the opening causing a greater bulge, which, for some chambers and gauge checkers, will cause the finished load to not chamber properly. 

This is why many “ream” their barrels to allow for longer OALs. 

 

Also note all this has been well documented here on BEF. 

 

There’s no “done” until all is checked and it varies with bullet profiles, diameters, and barrels. What won’t run in our fancy Italian and CZ guns runs just fine in my 9 mm Sig. 

 

BTW TG works fine with coated bullets, but it is not the best. We’ve shot close to 30k coated using it with zero ill effects. It’s been very accurate when matched with the right load for your barrel. 

 

Have fun getting the perfect load, it’s a great hobby!

Edited by HesedTech

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Lots of great info here. Very helpful. So as I mentioned, I ordered a few different bullet weights from Blue Bullets and BBI. One of them that I ordered is the 147g from BB. Can someone tell me if there is anything special about the rim around the base of the bullet that I need to consider while loading

 

250-147-9-2.jpg?1391967415

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It's just a "grease ring" as are common on lead bullets. Nothing special you need to know or do about it except that it makes the bullet slightly longer.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

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Posted (edited)

OP......Out of curiosity what type of 9mm handgun ya gonna use?

Edited by oddjob

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OP......Out of curiosity what type of 9mm handgun ya gonna use?
I shoot Production with a CZ SP-01 manual safety. It's got some cajun parts in it. Pro package and a lightened recoil spring.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

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You'll find the chamber/throat is cut short in CZ's.  Might have to shorten up the OAL a little more than with other loads/guns. 

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4 hours ago, oddjob said:

You'll find the chamber/throat is cut short in CZ's.  Might have to shorten up the OAL a little more than with other loads/guns. 

 

Unless you have the chamber reamed, for $20.     :) 

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, HesedTech said:

To answer the question about 147s difficulties goes like this:

 

9mm is a tapered cartridge and the brass gets thicker as it moves towards the base. 

147s are longer than Standard and thus will seat deeper in the casing.

depending on the OAL needed and the bullet diameter, .356 and up, will bulge the case at the shorter OALs.

Additionally some brass, think CBC, will get thicker closer to the opening causing a greater bulge, which, for some chambers and gauge checkers, will cause the finished load to not chamber properly. 

This is why many “ream” their barrels to allow for longer OALs. 

 

Also note all this has been well documented here on BEF. 

 

There’s no “done” until all is checked and it varies with bullet profiles, diameters, and barrels. What won’t run in our fancy Italian and CZ guns runs just fine in my 9 mm Sig. 

 

Way too much thought put into such a simple process.

 

Seat them as short as the barrel requires, done, lol.

 

 

Edited by 4n2t0

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Posted (edited)
On 3/6/2019 at 2:54 PM, muncie21 said:

Maybe 'difficult' is the wrong word.

 

One additional complexity that lighter bullets do not have is potential bulging of the case, near the bullet base, if they get seated where the walls of the case start to taper.  When loading for my CZ, I found there was a point were decreasing OAL would result in this bulge, too much bulge and it won't chamber.

 

^^^

This

 

Those who run CZs and Tanfoglio get it. 

 

“LOL”

Edited by HesedTech

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Like Memphis Mechanic said on a related topic, throw a bunch of mid range loads w different bullets down the barrel. Take the winner and work that one up with powders, etc.. Your barrel is the boss.

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28 minutes ago, lgh said:

Your barrel is the boss.

Shhh, don't tell AOC that :)

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