Why not more SBR in PCC?

[Doug H.]

My last Efile Form 1 took 16 business days!  The SBR I did on paper took over 8 months.  I built a 8” on a QC10 and in March finished an MP5A3 clone with 8.6” barrel. The Mp5 shoots much softer and is easier to control but trigger travel is longer and harder to shoot fast splits on in your face targets.

[Dutchman195]

I thought I remember reading or someone telling me IDPA has a dumb 'no SBR' rule. 

Can anyone confirm that?

I have a Gen 1 MPX with a 8in Barrel that I would be interested in turning into a PCC gun on a Form 1 but if the 10in barrel rule applies then I'm out. 

[Darqusoull13]

2 hours ago, Dutchman195 said:

I thought I remember reading or someone telling me IDPA has a dumb 'no SBR' rule. 

Can anyone confirm that?

I have a Gen 1 MPX with a 8in Barrel that I would be interested in turning into a PCC gun on a Form 1 but if the 10in barrel rule applies then I'm out. 

Just skip the IDPA thing as a whole if that's the case. I promise the SBR will be more fun than IDPA.

[Bifurcate]

1 hour ago, Darqusoull13 said:

Just skip the IDPA thing as a whole if that's the case. I promise the SBR will be more fun than IDPA.

 

Agreed.

 

Now if USPSA wasn't FUDD about silencers...

Edited June 13, 2019 by Bifurcate

[DKorn]

3 hours ago, Dutchman195 said:

I thought I remember reading or someone telling me IDPA has a dumb 'no SBR' rule. 

Can anyone confirm that?

I have a Gen 1 MPX with a 8in Barrel that I would be interested in turning into a PCC gun on a Form 1 but if the 10in barrel rule applies then I'm out. 

 

I don’t see anything to that effect anywhere in here:

https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Appendix-B-PCC.pdf

 

They do still have the “no braced pistols” rule just like USPSA. 

[Dutchman195]

13 minutes ago, DKorn said:

 

I don’t see anything to that effect anywhere in here:

https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Appendix-B-PCC.pdf

 

They do still have the “no braced pistols” rule just like USPSA. 

Oh nice, I was wrong. Been there before. 

Now the question lies, do I take my Gen 1 MPX that runs perfectly fine suppressed with 124gr Bayous and SBR it.

or sell it and get a Gen 3 MPX or a JP and SBR it.

[SergioSF]

2 minutes ago, Dutchman195 said:

Oh nice, I was wrong. Been there before. 

Now the question lies, do I take my Gen 1 MPX that runs perfectly fine suppressed with 124gr Bayous and SBR it.

or sell it and get a Gen 3 MPX or a JP and SBR it.

 

Both

One as a suppressor host for playing/practicing in the desert, and the other for competition.

(SBR'd my competition gun, and have a brace on my suppressor host.)

[Nathanb]

Just buy a new barrel set up and hand guard if you want. I’ve got a 4.5 inch and 8 inch barre for mine. If you buy a new plug and tappet it’s pretty fast to swap barrels

[SergioSF]

22 minutes ago, Nathanb said:

Just buy a new barrel set up and hand guard if you want. I’ve got a 4.5 inch and 8 inch barre for mine. If you buy a new plug and tappet it’s pretty fast to swap barrels

 

... and pick up some +20 springs too. Really helps keep the gassiness down with the suppressor.

 

However, the nice thing with separate guns is not having to mess with re-zeroing optics. With mine, the different barrels lengths, plus the suppressor was enough to significantly change POI.

[Dutchman195]

5 minutes ago, SergioSF said:

 

... and pick up some +20 springs too. Really helps keep the gassiness down with the suppressor.

 

However, the nice thing with separate guns is not having to mess with re-zeroing optics. With mine, the different barrels lengths, plus the suppressor was enough to significantly change POI.

Do they make Gen 3 replacement MPX Barrels? Only thing I can find are the Gen 2s on the sig website

[SergioSF]

Just now, Dutchman195 said:

Do they make Gen 3 replacement MPX Barrels? Only thing I can find are the Gen 2s on the sig website

 

It's my understanding that the Gen 2 and 3 barrels (and plugs/pistons) are interchangeable with each other. 

(I believe another forum member bought a Gen 3, and swapped his 10" Gen 2 barrel over.)

[Darqusoull13]

1 hour ago, Dutchman195 said:

Oh nice, I was wrong. Been there before. 

Now the question lies, do I take my Gen 1 MPX that runs perfectly fine suppressed with 124gr Bayous and SBR it.

or sell it and get a Gen 3 MPX or a JP and SBR it.

 
Submitted humbly for consideration. We ran 3 shooters on this SBR at our recent night match. At a 250 round falling steel match we hosted a while back we had 4 shooters running the JP suppressed. The GMR just straight works. My buddy has the same 10.5" barrel with a 12" hand guard and the Omega 9K for a suppressor under hand guard look that's divine. 

[Darqusoull13]

1 hour ago, Bifurcate said:

 

Agreed.

 

Now if USPSA wasn't FUDD about silencers...

It turns out suppressors are legal in Open Division but not PCC division. Maybe we can get that fixed and shoot our PCC's civilized like they were meant to be enjoyed. 

[Dutchman195]

Just now, Darqusoull13 said:

It turns out suppressors are legal in Open Division but not PCC division. Maybe we can get that fixed and shoot our PCC's civilized like they were meant to be enjoyed. 

Shooting a 160gr at the absolute minimum major PF(165) it would be pretty quiet. 

 

8 minutes ago, Darqusoull13 said:

 
Submitted humbly for consideration. We ran 3 shooters on this SBR at our recent night match. At a 250 round falling steel match we hosted a while back we had 4 shooters running the JP suppressed. The GMR just straight works. My buddy has the same 10.5" barrel with a 12" hand guard and the Omega 9K for a suppressor under hand guard look that's divine. 

 

if I had not a Gen 1 MPX, or I could sell my MPX I would perfer the JP I think. Glock Mags and all. 

Would they ship me a lower and a 10in barrel separately while I wait for the stamp?
 

[Darqusoull13]

3 minutes ago, Dutchman195 said:

Shooting a 160gr at the absolute minimum major PF(165) it would be pretty quiet. 

 

if I had not a Gen 1 MPX, or I could sell my MPX I would perfer the JP I think. Glock Mags and all. 

Would they ship me a lower and a 10in barrel separately while I wait for the stamp?
 

My suggestion would be to just order it as a pistol. My E-file Form 1's have been coming back in 7-10 days so it's not that long of a wait to slap on a stock. 

I have ordered complete lowers before though so you could do the lower first. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Darqusoull13
Added info

[Neomet]

7 hours ago, Darqusoull13 said:

It turns out suppressors are legal in Open Division but not PCC division. Maybe we can get that fixed and shoot our PCC's civilized like they were meant to be enjoyed. 

 

Oh dear Lord, no! I went through our first round of timers not picking up PCC shots.   I grew quite weary of having to bring double the ammo I normally did and having pistol guys throwing rocks at me because I was slowing the squad down reshooting stages.  That and when you looked at the results and saw that the stage winner by 7 seconds over all the GMs was the mid-pack C class shooter because the RO didn't recognize they didn't pick up the last shots.    

[Neomet]

8 hours ago, SergioSF said:

 

It's my understanding that the Gen 2 and 3 barrels (and plugs/pistons) are interchangeable with each other. 

(I believe another forum member bought a Gen 3, and swapped his 10" Gen 2 barrel over.)

 

They are interchangeable but have different gas port diameters.  

[Darqusoull13]

8 hours ago, Neomet said:

 

Oh dear Lord, no! I went through our first round of timers not picking up PCC shots.   I grew quite weary of having to bring double the ammo I normally did and having pistol guys throwing rocks at me because I was slowing the squad down reshooting stages.  That and when you looked at the results and saw that the stage winner by 7 seconds over all the GMs was the mid-pack C class shooter because the RO didn't recognize they didn't pick up the last shots.    

Doom and Gloom! Woe befall us if we enjoy suppressors. 

 

In reality having a decent RO that holds the timer with the sensor facing the ejection port prevents this. If your RO is not checking times for sanity like a 10 second time on a 20 second stage train him to do so. 

 

If I can consistently time suppressed PCCs at night when shooters are using NV and I'm not then I do not feel it is a stretch to say it's easy to do in the daytime. 

[Neomet]

Oh, I agree it can be done.  Ejection port is the key as you say and with dedicated ROs easy to do other than stages that finish with the shooter wrapping around a wall.  The issue would be at our local matches with 100 shooters and random ROs with varying degrees of skill sets as well as a reluctance by some in the stock-impaired divisions to do anything different for the "benefit" of PCC.  Killjoys.  LOL   

[Darqusoull13]

I totally get the large local match issue. We were lucky with about 1/3 of our matches being PCC the "stock impaired" folks understood that limiting PCC meant significant reductions in match funds for improvement. 

We were also lucky with very experienced Outlaw 3 Gunner RO's that also played USPSA games. They tended to be more of the mindset of "how do we get s#!t done" rather than bitching that things were hard to do. New RO's learned the tricks with the experienced folks and the majority of suppressed shooters shot together in a couple squads. 
 

[Bifurcate]

14 hours ago, Neomet said:

 

Oh dear Lord, no! I went through our first round of timers not picking up PCC shots.   I grew quite weary of having to bring double the ammo I normally did and having pistol guys throwing rocks at me because I was slowing the squad down reshooting stages.  That and when you looked at the results and saw that the stage winner by 7 seconds over all the GMs was the mid-pack C class shooter because the RO didn't recognize they didn't pick up the last shots.    

 

As if anyone needed more proof it's time for a different system than audio pickup of the last round...

 

It's not working for unsupressed PCC, and there is ZERO reason to not allow suppressors.

 

If USPSA was smart, they would be encouraging SBR, suppressed, whatever they can to grow the sport beyond the majority of shooters being senior or super senior... because guess what? Those guys have at best 10 years left on them.

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Bifurcate

[Norther]

I know the suppressor discussion is off topic a bit, but I’m curious. As nice as it is to have one, why would you want to use it in a match?  You still have to wear ear protection, and it adds weight and length. If you just want it to feel the same all the time, maybe a fake suppressor would accomplish that while remaining legal under the rules. 

[Darqusoull13]

On 6/16/2019 at 2:53 AM, Norther said:

I know the suppressor discussion is off topic a bit, but I’m curious. As nice as it is to have one, why would you want to use it in a match?  You still have to wear ear protection, and it adds weight and length. If you just want it to feel the same all the time, maybe a fake suppressor would accomplish that while remaining legal under the rules. 

Some folks prefer the reduced concussion. Even some jersey shooters still just shoot for the love of the game. The suppressor does also recoil by redirecting gas although slightly less effectively depending on the can and comp. 

This is particularly true in games involving real rifles like Precision Rifle. As you get into larger and larger cartridges with more and more gas at higher pressure being focused through a compensator the concussion gets worse and worse. Getting first time shooters behind a suppressed PCC or rifle takes the blast away from the gun and allows the newbie to just enjoy slamming lead into steel. I'll do anything I can to help new shooters get into the game. If that means being on Troy's s#!t list for constantly petitioning to allow Civilized Shooting (suppressors) then so be it. It's the right damn thing to do. 
 

[Norther]

Makes sense for “real” rifles, but the downloaded 9mms we use don’t really have any annoying concussion. Certainly less than the pistol divisions. 

[Big Dog Howie]

On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 10:18 AM, SergioSF said:

 

Both

One as a suppressor host for playing/practicing in the desert, and the other for competition.

(SBR'd my competition gun, and have a brace on my suppressor host.)

Those are really pretty