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IDPA & Extended Mag releases


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The rule on extended magazine releases is one of IDPA's clearest and easiest to understand rules.  What about this is not clear?

 

Quote

8.1.7 Allowable Modifications for All Divisions
The following modification rules apply to firearms in all divisions.
A. Storage locks may be disabled or removed.
B. Magazine disconnects may be disabled or removed.
C. Lasers that are incorporated into the firearm or sights are allowed if they comply with all other division rules and
the laser is not activated during a string of fire. Tape may be used to prevent the laser from projecting.
D. An extended magazine release button may not be oversized in diameter or protrude more than 0.2” out from
the frame. The measurement is taken at the rear most part of the magazine release, where it exits the frame.
When the magazine release area is recessed into the grip frame, the grip frame to the rear of the recess is used
as the base of the measurement.

 

Edited by elguapo
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  • 1 year later...

Jim Watson - 

 

I realize this string is old now, but your reply is incorrect; i only know because I recently learned that I had misunderstood this rule as well.

I shoot a Walther Q5 Match SF.  Love the pistol; hate the stubby magazine release.

 

I ordered an extended mag release from Walther, and used my dremel to remove the lip from the top of extension (to keep in line with the 'not oversize in diameter' part of the rule).  http://www.carlwalther.com/images/q5_round_mag_release.jpg

 

Like you, I logically thought the rule was limiting how much LONGER THAN THE ORIGINAL the mag release could be; seems a reasonable frame of reference.  But as elguapo points out, the rule is incredibly clear.  The .2" is the absolute limit the release can extend from the frame, measured from the rear-most spot on the release.

 

I remain perplexed by the intent of this rule; I certainly wouldn't EDC a pistol whose magazine release I couldn't easily and reliably manipulate under stress, and the extended release from Walther is great in that regard.  I had to remold my Kydex holster to accommodate it, to be sure, but of course would do the same for an EDC pistol as well.

 

Nonetheless, that is the rule.  The Walther extended release, in addition to being oversize, extends about 0.318" from the frame, while the OEM release extends about 0.117" from the frame.

 

Hoping to shoot at my state IDPA match in 2021, so now I'm in search of a machinist to help me make a mag release as long as is legal.  Thinking I would start with the Water extended release, disassemble it, grind stuff down, and attempt to reassemble.  Unfortunately at the moment I don't have access to my workshop / materials, so I can't easily do it myself.

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You are, of course, correct, that is .200" tall, not taller.

Are you shooting in SSP?  Seems a modified or shop made magazine catch is not allowed.  ESP is not clear but you could probably get by.

 

  1. Magazine releases, slide stops, safety levers, de-cocking levers, hammers, and triggers, that are stock on one SSP

    legal firearm may be used on another SSP legal firearm from the same manufacturer provided they are drop in replacements. Parts in this list must come factory installed on standard production firearms. Special parts that are available installed only from a factory custom shop are not eligible in SSP.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/5/2019 at 1:26 PM, Jim Watson said:

You may have a magazine catch up to .200" taller than stock but it may not be larger in diameter. 

are they legal if they come from the manufacturer as an extended magazine catch?

Like a shadow 2?

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20 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

Yes.  Just because something is a factory/OEM feature doesn't necessarily make it legal in IDPA

 

Kinda like magwells in USPSA CO.

That is a good way of looking at it, thanks.

 

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On 1/5/2021 at 4:46 PM, Jim Watson said:

You are, of course, correct, that is .200" tall, not taller.

Are you shooting in SSP?  Seems a modified or shop made magazine catch is not allowed.  ESP is not clear but you could probably get by.

 

  1. Magazine releases, slide stops, safety levers, de-cocking levers, hammers, and triggers, that are stock on one SSP

    legal firearm may be used on another SSP legal firearm from the same manufacturer provided they are drop in replacements. Parts in this list must come factory installed on standard production firearms. Special parts that are available installed only from a factory custom shop are not eligible in SSP.

 

I shoot Carry Optics.  And so far I've had zero luck in engineering any sort of legal mag release.  Still drives me a bit crazy, since it's a mod I use for real EDC guns as well.  

 

That said, too long a release can definitely lead to a malfunction - this particular release caused me a problem on an IDPA (local match) stage; started the stage gun on the table.  Had a failure to feed following my first shot; quickly got it running again, but reflecting later on, I realized that setting the gun down on the table must have been enough to partially actuate the mag release, partially unseating the magazine.  Maybe the rule makes sense after all, lol ...

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3 minutes ago, TomVonKY said:

 

I shoot Carry Optics.  And so far I've had zero luck in engineering any sort of legal mag release.  Still drives me a bit crazy, since it's a mod I use for real EDC guns as well.

 

 

Careful.............#dontbanmejoyce

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/8/2021 at 4:46 PM, TomVonKY said:

 

I shoot Carry Optics.  And so far I've had zero luck in engineering any sort of legal mag release.  Still drives me a bit crazy, since it's a mod I use for real EDC guns as well.  

 

That said, too long a release can definitely lead to a malfunction - this particular release caused me a problem on an IDPA (local match) stage; started the stage gun on the table.  Had a failure to feed following my first shot; quickly got it running again, but reflecting later on, I realized that setting the gun down on the table must have been enough to partially actuate the mag release, partially unseating the magazine.  Maybe the rule makes sense after all, lol ...

 

I'm not saying these are THE reasons for not allowing an extended mag release in a defensive pistol game but food for thought.

 

Here's my take on the "practicality" of  "excessively" long mag releases. I've been carrying since about the time the carry law was enacted (late 80's) in Florida. That said, more than once I found an extended mag release had somehow accidentally been pressed by me looking for change in a pocket for a toll while driving, getting bumped in a holster on an amusement park ride or even an inadvertent bump of the gun into something which pressed the mag release into either my belt or other part of the poorly selected holster for that model. In all cases the mag was held from dropping out of the magwell but dropped enough down to make it a one shot gun.  You have already seen the mag release being bumped on a table issue, this could happen on a night stand in the dark also.

 

I've also seen shooters accidentally drop their mags in a course of fire with their weak hand thumb or even their right hand thumb on extended mag releases if they had large hands and then get a safety violation for muzzle direction trying to recover the mag.

 

Early on I moved all my Beretta (extended to .195" of the frame) and Sig releases to the right side and it's never happened again. Also the release on the right side (I shoot right handed) lets me use my middle finger to drop the mag without losing my sight picture... "could" the now exposed mag release on the right side get bumped accidentally? yes, but in all the years I've carried like this I've had zero instances of it happening not so for it being on the left side.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 1/5/2021 at 3:46 PM, TomVonKY said:

Jim Watson - 

 

I realize this string is old now, but your reply is incorrect; i only know because I recently learned that I had misunderstood this rule as well.

I shoot a Walther Q5 Match SF.  Love the pistol; hate the stubby magazine release.

 

I ordered an extended mag release from Walther, and used my dremel to remove the lip from the top of extension (to keep in line with the 'not oversize in diameter' part of the rule).  http://www.carlwalther.com/images/q5_round_mag_release.jpg

 

Like you, I logically thought the rule was limiting how much LONGER THAN THE ORIGINAL the mag release could be; seems a reasonable frame of reference.  But as elguapo points out, the rule is incredibly clear.  The .2" is the absolute limit the release can extend from the frame, measured from the rear-most spot on the release.

 

I remain perplexed by the intent of this rule; I certainly wouldn't EDC a pistol whose magazine release I couldn't easily and reliably manipulate under stress, and the extended release from Walther is great in that regard.  I had to remold my Kydex holster to accommodate it, to be sure, but of course would do the same for an EDC pistol as well.

 

Nonetheless, that is the rule.  The Walther extended release, in addition to being oversize, extends about 0.318" from the frame, while the OEM release extends about 0.117" from the frame.

 

Hoping to shoot at my state IDPA match in 2021, so now I'm in search of a machinist to help me make a mag release as long as is legal.  Thinking I would start with the Water extended release, disassemble it, grind stuff down, and attempt to reassemble.  Unfortunately at the moment I don't have access to my workshop / materials, so I can't easily do it myself.


Buy a Dawson low pro round magazine catch button for a 2011. Cut off the threaded shaft and epoxy the button to the stock mag release. It is identical in size and I measured it at less then .200" from the frame

 

walther.png

Edited by waktasz
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