Most important factors for accuracy - 9MM

[xdf3]

Hi,

 

what do you think are the most important factors to reload 9mm cartriges? 

Primers, powder, AOL, type of round.

At what distance have you found differences?

 

I have little resources to find out at the moment and I'd like to read some opinions/experiences about this topic. I'm not sure I noticed any difference yet (up to 25-30 yards).

[AHI]

0 to 25y your not going to see a lot of difference in loads. I do have one pistol that hates round hose bullets over 4in at 20 yards

change to  a flat point  sub 2 in . every thing else the same.  At 50 yards you will see definite differences. 

# 1 bullet quality Hollow point bullets tend to be the most accurate

# 2  case quality  (all same head stamp)

# 3  powder charge ( velocity) found that 9mm is most accurate in the 140 ish power factor range regardless of bullet weight,

primers have very little influence ( usually last thing to experiment with) 

Edited March 5, 2019 by AHI

[zzt]

This ^^^^^.  Bullseye shooters who shoot 9mm in the Centerfire match will tell you that you have to drive them fast to get acceptable accuracy.  In my P226 I found hot 124 (NATO equiv.) and 147 factory ammo to be the most accurate.

[superdude]

The most important factor is the bullet. Some bullets tend to shoot well with many different loads.  Other bullets tend to shoot poorly no matter what. 

 

Quote

0 to 25y your not going to see a lot of difference in loads. 

 

On the contrary:  https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/1/18/38-different-9mm-loads

[AHI]

21 minutes ago, AHI said:

I do have one pistol that hates round hose bullets over 4in at 20 yards

read the next sentence

[RAP]

Wow, this will be a tough to answer as I’m sure everybody places importance on components differently. Plus, you didn’t say minor or major PF, etc.

I will share my process when I was determining the components I use starting with what I determined most important. I shoot a CZ P09 for Carry Optics.

First I decided what bullet weight I wanted to start with. I researched and learned what people was using and why. In minor loads for 9mm 147, 135’s and 124 grain Bullets seemed to be most common so I started with 100 of each weight to determine what felt best to me. I settled on on 147’s. 124’s are more accurate but I liked the feel of 147’s and they are accurate enough.

Next I determined weather I wanted to shoot jacketed, coated or plated. I went with coated for cost reasons, plus numerous people are having success with them. I shot plated Bullets in the past and I never had much success with accuracy from them.

For powder it seemed like Titegroup was and still very popular. But, I had VV N320 on hand so I started with that. I now use Alliant Sport Pistol because it’s cheaper and in my opinion every bit as good as VV N320. If I was starting from scratch I would start with Sport Pistol.

As far as primer I went with what I had on hand, Winchester’s. Plus they were reliable in my CZ P09. I have lighter springs in my CZ so a softer primer is important. Something you have to determine.

As far as OAL. You need to do the plunk test to determine the OAL for your barrel/bullet combination. Different style of Bullets (round nose, flat point, etc.) will require different OAL. Plunk test is something you should determine first before loading a bunch of rounds.


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[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Bullet and also barrel twist will give you more accuracy. Most use 124 grain bullets in the 145PF range. Thanks, Eric

[Hi-Power Jack]

2 hours ago, xdf3 said:

 

what are most important factors to reload 9mm cartriges? 

Primers, powder, AOL, type of round.

 

The bullet is most important.

Then the powder and powder charge.

Then OAL.

Primers don't really make much difference.     

[lgh]

4 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

The bullet is most important.

Then the powder and powder charge.

Then OAL.

Primers don't really make much difference.

This. The barrel must like the bullet. Then powder to refine it. OAL not that important. Primers must make the powder go bang but that's about it.

[Hi-Power Jack]

3 hours ago, lgh said:

The barrel must like the bullet. Then powder to refine it. OAL not that important. Primers must make the powder go bang but that's about it.

 

When I was working up a load for my BHP ten years ago, I saw a small

difference in accuracy at different OAL's - haven't seen it at all with my TruBor.     

[xdf3]

How is it that 147 grains seem to be more precise than 124 grains?

 

I use 124 grains mostly, they're cheap and easy to find. I might consider using 115 in the future. My main concern is : cheap, easy to find, precise. 

 

I use RN because they're easier to find, but I would consider TC / FP too. Not looking for bullseye but I want to be sure the error is 99% mine.

[lgh]

11 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

When I was working up a load for my BHP ten years ago, I saw a small

difference in accuracy at different OAL's

That's what I mean. It might be important but not all that important compared with bullet and powder.

 

Someone who posts on BE did a pretty detailed workup of accuracy vs OAL in a 9mm load. IIRC it was last summer.  He did find some differences - I think accuracy increased with shorter OAL - but they were not great and others reported they found no difference.

[superdude]

3 hours ago, xdf3 said:

How is it that 147 grains seem to be more precise than 124 grains?

 

I use 124 grains mostly, they're cheap and easy to find. I might consider using 115 in the future. My main concern is : cheap, easy to find, precise. 

 

I use RN because they're easier to find, but I would consider TC / FP too. Not looking for bullseye but I want to be sure the error is 99% mine.

 

Your barrel will tell you what it likes. It's that simple. 

[AHI]

What kind of groups are you getting say at 25 yards?

[BillGarlandJr]

In addition to everything already mentioned I'd add to be sure not to use too much crimp. Just take the bell out of the case mouth. Too much crimp can damaged the jacket/coating/plating and will raise hell with accuracy.

[M1A4ME]

Bullets are very important, in my experience.

 

My CZ's do very well (every one of them whether compacts or full sized) with 115 grain bullets.

 

So far I've tried 147 grain hollow points and 147 grain coated bullets with (will list them so I don't forget any) Bullseye, Unique, Titegroup, AA#5, Blue Dot and Red Dot (think that's all of them but there could be one or two more) and not found any load that shoots as well as the 115 grain PD or Zero hollow points.  I've got some 124 grain hollow points but haven't tried them yet.

 

I use Tula, CCI or Federal primers.  I've used CCI magnum primers a few times, but only on the Blue Dot 115 grain hollow point loads (compressed load, figured I'd try them, no changes in groups or function).

 

I've got boxes of 147's from the M&P days that I need to find a load for, so I'll keep working on it.

 

As people ahead of me said, the gun will tell you what bullets it "likes."

 

While not reloads, my CZ's also shoot the Federal 115 grain FMJ ammo from Walmart (I say Walmart because that's where I buy them) very well, too.  If I'm running low on the 115 grain hollow points and heading to the range I'll stop at Walmart and buy a couple 100 round boxes of that Federal ammo.

[Darrell]

16 hours ago, lgh said:

That's what I mean. It might be important but not all that important compared with bullet and powder.

 

Someone who posts on BE did a pretty detailed workup of accuracy vs OAL in a 9mm load. IIRC it was last summer.  He did find some differences - I think accuracy increased with shorter OAL - but they were not great and others reported they found no difference.

If you are refering to my spreadsheet I posted, I have done extensive testing with OAL, and crimp. I find that all bullets have a sweet spot. For example Precision Delta 124 gr I loaded out to 1.120, PD Pro loads to 1.100, I found that they were most accurate in my guns at 1.080-1.085. My CZ's chamber is shorter than my other guns and I load all my bullets to what works in my CZ's. Do a search for my name and you'll find my spreadsheet. I haven't posted an updated one in a while. I'm only allowed a max size of 1.9 MB and my updated file is 2.9MB. 

[himurax13]

In addition to everything already mentioned I'd add to be sure not to use too much crimp. Just take the bell out of the case mouth. Too much crimp can damaged the jacket/coating/plating and will raise hell with accuracy.

This.

Assuming that one has decent components and has a proper load, I have found that using the least amount of crimp that I could get away with works for me. The less you deform the bullet, the better.

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[Hi-Power Jack]

6 hours ago, Darrell said:

If you are refering to my spreadsheet I posted 

 

To fully answer the question posed (most important factors for accuracy)

see Darrell's spreadshoot - Everything that matters is covered.      

[xdf3]

19 hours ago, superdude said:

 

Your barrel will tell you what it likes. It's that simple. 

Explain then... Please

[superdude]

3 hours ago, xdf3 said:

Explain then... Please

 

Try different loads/bullet weights etc. in that gun and see which ones shoot the best. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by superdude

[lgh]

4 hours ago, xdf3 said:

Your barrel will tell you what it likes. It's that simple

 

4 hours ago, xdf3 said:

Explain then... Please

Others might do it differently but if I start out with a given bullet and it gives me really bad accuracy, even at the beginning charge, I move on to the next bullet rather than doing a whole ladder of charges to see if I can improve on that really bad accuracy. (Bad for me is something like > 4 inches at 25 yds but sometimes it's been  > 4 inches at 10yds.) This is based on my own experience of trying to improve the accuracy of a bullet the barrel just didn't like only to find a different bullet instantly gave me better accuracy.  After you do some reloading, you will get a good idea of what sucks and what doesn't.

[MemphisMechanic]

4 hours ago, xdf3 said:

Explain then... Please

 

Buy some coated 124s and 147s in both .355 and .356.

 

same for jacketed: buy both weights. 

 

Bulletmakers all sell sample packs for this purpose.

 

Load them with a commonly available powder like titegorup WST or sport pistol. Tons of options. Something with lots of load data coming off this website so you can Load them hotter to 135-140 power factor, without tons of load workup.

 

Load about as long as your barrel will accomodate.

 

See which one group best. Buy cases of those and stick with them.

 

 

[BillGarlandJr]

I see a number of recommendations for driving pf north of 135.....I agree! Seems a lot of folks get lost in the weeds trying to get the softest shooting load.....128-130ish pf, and its at the cost of accuracy. Its 9mm. It doesn't buck much regardless. But, in my experience, getting above 135 has almost always delivered better accuracy. For my money the more accurate load pays dividends.

[xdf3]

Would you shoot loads over 135 pf even though that might mean slower splits, and less barrel durability? I mean, I wouldn't even consider barrel durability if I had better accuracy and nothing else. Performance > weapon durability (to me).

 

For > 135 pf loads would you prefer progressive powders? I'm still learning a lot of basic stuffs. I am sticking to an easy to load powder, which may not be the best (I think it's the same as the LOVEX D032 ) but it's really cheap compared to most powders.

 

Also, isn't an OAL like 1.080" a bit too low? I'm using 9x21 and the suggested length is about 29,3-29,5mm which ranges from 1.153" to 1.160", which is considered safe. I tend to use about 29.0 ( 1.142" ) with RN / FP bullets, and 28.5 ( 1.122") for TC bullets.

I thought OAL wouldn't matter that much but there aren't that many tests around here. People tend to give more importance to bullets and powder.

 

 

--

 

I'm using a CZ SHADOW2, and I've been told that .3555 (if they even exist) would be better than .356 or .355

 

I'm using hard cast for training and powder coated bullets for matches. I'm not sure I found any differences in using different diameters, maybe I'm not good enough at shooting good groups yet. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by xdf3