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Considering revolver again

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4 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

Has Smith stepped up quality control on the 929's ? 

Maybe the 627's are just as bad, but from my 929 experience I would not tell anyone to consider one unless they had access to a revolver smith who could make sure things are right with the gun and guide the new shooter to a load recipe that avoided  Bullets walking and barrel leading. 

 

Probably a a search for something like "929" problems would be useful for a new buyer. 

Well, 12 years ago I bought a new 625 PC on line had a devil of a time keeping it timed, probably due to all the tinkering I did?  Other than that it shot well, had a good trigger and was accurate once I recut the crown and forcing cone.

Seven years ago I bought a new 627 PC on line, changed the rear sight blade in the OEM sight to a taller model, picked the FS I liked, cleaned up the crown, forcing cone, increased the cylinder chamfers just a bit, changed the springs and smoothed up the action to 5 1/2 lbs.  Had no issues with it and it was accurate from the box, most all of what I did was personal preference and other than the sights and action weren't needed.  So it was really good from the factory.  

Haven't even played with a 929 though.

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1 minute ago, pskys2 said:

Well, 12 years ago I bought a new 625 PC on line had a devil of a time keeping it timed, probably due to all the tinkering I did?  Other than that it shot well, had a good trigger and was accurate once I recut the crown and forcing cone.

Seven years ago I bought a new 627 PC on line, changed the rear sight blade in the OEM sight to a taller model, picked the FS I liked, cleaned up the crown, forcing cone, increased the cylinder chamfers just a bit, changed the springs and smoothed up the action to 5 1/2 lbs.  Had no issues with it and it was accurate from the box, most all of what I did was personal preference and other than the sights and action weren't needed.  So it was really good from the factory.  

Haven't even played with a 929 though.

I think the part many are missing is they assume buying a performance center gun means its a race ready gun, and its not its just a regular Smith with the same chance of problems. 

 

you just described taking a PC gun and feeling the need to re-crown and re-cut the forcing cone, do a full trigger job and chamfer the cylinder.  Or put another way as far as a competition gun goes they did about half the build correctly or good enough. and to be clear I do not think having a sub 12lb trigger is a personal preference thing, how far under 12lb is the preference part.

 

So I maintain that buying a PC Smith is still a Kit gun proposition either you are your smith will be performing some amount of work on the gun before it is ready to actually compete with. most of the work required is easy to do yourself if you want to learn but it still needs to be done. There is quite a bit of difference between buying a STI  for Limited and shooting competitions with A 4lb ish factory trigger and buying a 627 or 929 and competing with A 12lb factory trigger the 4lb one can be better but it will make very little difference in your scores the 12lb one will make a pretty big difference in your scores especially for a new revo shooter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, RJH said:

What is the advantage of the 929 over the 627 for a game gun?

Also when you run short brass like short colts the bullet has quite a jump to make in the cylinder from the brass to the chamber throat (on short colts there is .525+ from moth of brass to chamber throat) some people have lower accuracy shooting short colts out of 357 cylinders, some of that is bullet specific but it can be a issue.

 

that said I've shot 20k+ short colts in my 627 and its still more accurate than I am, but I know off a bench I can get smaller groups with 38 Special brass but for the game we play its a non issue for me.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, RJH said:

 

oops double tap

Edited by MikeBurgess
Double tap

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

I think the part many are missing is they assume buying a performance center gun means its a race ready gun, and its not its just a regular Smith with the same chance of problems. 

 

you just described taking a PC gun and feeling the need to re-crown and re-cut the forcing cone, do a full trigger job and chamfer the cylinder.  Or put another way as far as a competition gun goes they did about half the build correctly or good enough. and to be clear I do not think having a sub 12lb trigger is a personal preference thing, how far under 12lb is the preference part.

 

So I maintain that buying a PC Smith is still a Kit gun proposition either you are your smith will be performing some amount of work on the gun before it is ready to actually compete with. most of the work required is easy to do yourself if you want to learn but it still needs to be done. There is quite a bit of difference between buying a STI  for Limited and shooting competitions with A 4lb ish factory trigger and buying a 627 or 929 and competing with A 12lb factory trigger the 4lb one can be better but it will make very little difference in your scores the 12lb one will make a pretty big difference in your scores especially for a new revo shooter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree I have yet to see a PC gun worthy of any extra.  The 625 PC was pure naivety the 627 PC was the only choice for a 5" 357 8 shot.

I also bought a new (actually got it for a great price) 325 Thunder Ranch on line for EDC and IDPA, trying to score 2 uses with 1 item, and only had to smooth up the action, change the springs and rear sight blade.  It is really a great gun and I kept the action heavy to light off anything.  So it was as ready as possible from the box.  I also have a 442 that I've done nothing to and like it for EDC, just changed the grips.  The action is heavy but it's good for what I need it for.

I was just commenting on the fact that it seems to be a crap shoot.

I've never bought a competition gun, STI, 1911, Glock, S&W M&P or any Revolver M29, 625, 627 or 325 Thunder Ranch (EDC & IDPA) that I didn't feel the need to do some extra work on.  From triggers, to reliability work, sights or just add ons.  The closest would be the M&P 45 2.0 or 325 Thunder Ranch, which I do little to as I carry them.

Edited by pskys2

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On 2/28/2019 at 8:48 PM, RJH said:

What is the advantage of the 929 over the 627 for a game gun?

Some will say because of the titanium cylinder you can get a lighter action but light actions were around long before the titanium cylinders came out and you can still get excellent actions with the stainless cylinder..Others will bring up the 6.5" barrel is a plus for a longer sight radius but some like the 5" barrel as they say you can transition to the next target faster. To have any work done on the titanium cylinder you will need special cutting tools to ream or polish the chambers.

I think it boils down to if you are set up for 9mm reloading the 929 is the way to go if you are set up for 38/.357 the 38 long or short colt would be the way to go. Either caliber you always get all your brass back and even if you spend the money to buy short or long colt the amount of times you will reload the brass it pays for itself tenfold. I have 2000 short colt that I purchased at least 10 years ago if not even further back. I can honestly say that I have had less than a dozen split cases. I also use an undersized die which actually works the brass more. 

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23 hours ago, MikeyScuba said:

I am right in assuming the 929 has more aftermarket parts support?

🤔 the 929 and 627 are both N-frames and the only real difference I would see would be the titanium cylinder as the barrels on the 929 are actually slugged out at .357. So I think all parts for for both models would be exchangeable. I could be wrong and sometimes I am mistaken. 😀

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I was thinking more along the lines of holsters/moonclips/grips etc 

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8 minutes ago, MikeyScuba said:

I was thinking more along the lines of holsters/moonclips/grips etc 

 

Holsters , grips, cylinder releases, front sights, rear sights, springs, hammers, triggers will all be interchangeable

 

Moonclips however will be different for obvious reasons

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If I am not mistaken you can use 38 moon clips in the 929 if you want to shoot 38 short colt but you cannot use 929 moon clips in the 627

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On 3/1/2019 at 9:17 AM, MikeyScuba said:

Will the new 9mm Ruger be competitive right out of the box (lightened spring and all)?

 

Any chance you can elaborate?  Is this supposed to be coming this year?  8 shot?  Steel cylinder?  

Thanks for any info you can pass along.

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1 hour ago, Tophernj said:

Any chance you can elaborate?  Is this supposed to be coming this year?  8 shot?  Steel cylinder?  

Thanks for any info you can pass along.

 

It's a secret. 

 

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2 hours ago, alecmc said:

 

It's a secret. 

 

Not helping....

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Didn’t some of you see the prototype in Nov?  Given the fact I was meeting with David & James to have 2 929’s bought and tricked out; I wasn’t particularly interested in seeing their possible replacement.

 

That being said I was told the story of how the 929 had almost to be forced out of S&W (if memory serves correctly ).  Given that and how the new ruger gun is being developed by Dave, it should be an interesting piece of equipment.  

 

 

Btw typing  Ruger on an iPad is annoying ! !! Blue hyperlinks and all

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, MikeyScuba said:

I was thinking more along the lines of holsters/moonclips/grips etc 

As alecmc says, except the 6.5" barrel may require a different holster.  If it has an extension for the barrel, like CR Speed or DAA, make sure it fits to that revolvers length.  If it's something more like the Blade Tech or the SpeedBeez kydex type you might want to get it for that barrel length, which may be more problematic, as you don't want the FS to extend below the holster if you can keep from it.  Both for looks and if the FS is a classic style (retained by a spring loaded plunger) it can be dislodged if it hits the holster on the draw.

Edited by pskys2

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5 hours ago, Tophernj said:

Any chance you can elaborate?  Is this supposed to be coming this year?  8 shot?  Steel cylinder?  

Thanks for any info you can pass along.

 

If you are talking about an 8 shot 357 it is on the ruger  website, if something else i don't know

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Who is doing the trigger work on the Ruger, if anyone?

 

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Dave Olhasso.  Do a search.

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2 minutes ago, Koppi said:

 

Who is doing the trigger work on the Ruger, if anyone?

 

 

Other thing. As I understand it, unlike S&W Ruger does not sell parts to revolver smiths, I don't know if this will hamper their development and maintenance as a competition gun. 

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3 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Other thing. As I understand it, unlike S&W Ruger does not sell parts to revolver smiths, I don't know if this will hamper their development and maintenance as a competition gun. 

 

Apparently, this is going to change in the future. You hear promises here and there, but i'll believe it when I see it. 

 

And yes, I do think the lack of getting the most basic of factory parts is one of the issues with why Ruger has never really taken off in the competition platform, You really put a damper on innovation by not allowing people to order replacement parts to experiment on and test different things to make the gun better for competition shooting.

 

I goofed around with some ruger actions for a while and had to source all parts from getting lucky on eBay.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I know I’m really late to the party here. For USPSA I chose a 627 and with 38 short colt. A 929 would be essentially interchangeable (just get the right moon clips). I haven’t done steel challenge, but have heard a TRR8/R8 could be better due to no double “taps” and faster transitions.

 

However, the TRR8 and R8 are not interchangeable. Aside from the fixed vs removable rail, it is important to note the barrel rifling it different.

 

TRR8 = land & groove (lead is ok)

R8 = EDM (lead is a no go?)

Edited by J_Allen
Originally listed R8 rifling as polygonal. This is incorrect. It is EDM = Electrical Discharge Machined. I don’t know how this affects lead bullets.

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Any thoughts on the 627 with the 4” barrel? There’s a used one at a local shop.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Jay1957 said:

Any thoughts on the 627 with the 4” barrel? There’s a used one at a local shop.

Shot one for years and honestly for 90% of the matches I shoot it's great.

Couple of the sectional type matches with a few 50 yd. shots the longer sight radius is nice 

But

Honestly not necessary for as few of those as we come across.

If the price is right and it's tight. It would be a great revo to work with!

Edited by jcc7x7

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1 hour ago, jcc7x7 said:

Shot one for years and honestly for 90% of the matches I shoot it's great.

Couple of the sectional type matches with a few 50 yd. shots the longer sight radius is nice 

But

Honestly not necessary for as few of those as we come across.

If the price is right and it's tight. It would be a great revo to work with!

Thanks. It’s a smaller shop that I have done business with an I feel they will deal. I’ve given it a reasonable look and it seems tight and unmodified with a low round count. Time to give it a closer inspection.

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6 minutes ago, Jay1957 said:

Thanks. It’s a smaller shop that I have done business with an I feel they will deal. I’ve given it a reasonable look and it seems tight and unmodified with a low round count. Time to give it a closer inspection.

As it has been said many times before all S&W's are your starter kit, short block if you will, to build on.

Most will get you started just fine.

Then you'll want to up grade it.

trigger work

Smooth it out 

etc etc etc

 

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