sidpost Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 CZ Custom Shadow Orange Cajun Gun Works Shadow How are these two pistols different from each other beyond the cosmetics? Is one 'better' than the other? Or, are they two peas from the same pod? Is one better suited to more shooting disciplines than the other? Initially, I'm looking at IDPA but, I wonder about the other competitions out there like IPSC, Steel Challenge, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 If you go to sell them later the Orange will have a higher resale value. Different parts, different philosophies. Yes there are some differences between them in how the originate and the work done. But if you don't know now you probably won't care which you get and both will feel/seem good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueorison Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, sidpost said: CZ Custom Shadow Orange Cajun Gun Works Shadow How are these two pistols different from each other beyond the cosmetics? Is one 'better' than the other? Or, are they two peas from the same pod? Is one better suited to more shooting disciplines than the other? Initially, I'm looking at IDPA but, I wonder about the other competitions out there like IPSC, Steel Challenge, etc. Diff companies and philosophies, like rowdy said, above. Depends who did the work at which company, but typically, CGW work has been pretty attentive, IMO. If you like the Orange bling (I do), that is a nod towards the first. I don't buy stuff to sell them, so that doesn't weigh in. 2lb SA and 4lb DA is pretty dang good. You just need to change out the grips to ones that you like; everyone likes diff thickness grips/texture. FYI IPSC is what we shoot overseas; USPSA is the US version that mostly mimics IPSC. Sometimes we use IPSC targets in USPSA. I would advise you to start in USPSA above all the common disciplines. If bullseye were one of them, I'd recommend that or silhouette; will truly teach you about trigger control and patience with sights. You can get away with a lot at the more "action" sports when you still employ slightly sloppy technique. But most want to just have fun and look good, not truly improve and practice what they are horrible at. You have to decide who you are; know thyself. Either way, have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidpost Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 After doing ~2K rounds a week in a G17 when I first started shooting semi-auto's, I understand what commitment is. I shot under good instruction and learned so well with that pistol, I could tear the X out of a 50" target without sights, muscle memory only. Today, I am a bit rusty ... I'm looking to move on to something else now that I am ~3 decades older while I still have the health to try other things. Before I seriously consider an Atlas Nemesis, I need to run a more reasonable cost choice and ensure it is something I REALLY want to follow through with. IDPA dominates in my local area. I'm not into 'space guns' today either. When I retire, I may travel around using IPSC, USPSA, IDPA, Steel Challenge, etc. meets to see the USA. A good 2011 style pistol is probably in my future (along with a nice single stack) but, today I want a good DA/SA 9mm "SSP/ESP" pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyJ Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I'm pretty sure the Shadow orange is a Czub factory 'performance' pistol, vs. a CZC custom product https://www.czub.cz/en/produkty/pistole/competition/cz-75-sp-01-shadow-890.html So comparing that to a CZC custom pistol may or may not be apples to apples. You can have CZC build you an SP01, for a bit less money, but it will lack the 'special fitted barrel and slide', as it will be built on a 'regular' SP01, which would also be legal in SSP or ESP. It will still be an outstanding firearm...I have one of their custom Shadow 2's (short reset trigger, trigger job, ext. firing pin, etc.) and I absolutely love it. I was just in there today talking about just such a build...I want an IDPA gun, as close in weight and handling to my Shadow 2 that I shoot in USPSA. TobyJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidpost Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) Today I held a CZC Target Shadow 2 in my hands along with a plain jane SP-01 variant and a couple of others. I really like the SA/DA trigger pulls. Even fully down, versus half-cock notch, it was super smooth and light. The fit and balance were a good match for my hands and prior pistol learning curves. I'm seriously thinking about the CZC Shadow Orange now. The main negative I saw in this brief exposure was the short slide serrations and the general lack of much slide real-estate to grab in failure drills. Sid Edited March 4, 2019 by sidpost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, sidpost said: Today I held a CZC Target Shadow 2 in my hands along with a plain jane SP-01 variant and a couple of others. I really like the SA/DA trigger pulls. Even fully down, versus half-cock notch, it was super smooth and light. The fit and balance were a good match for my hands and prior pistol learning curves. I'm seriously thinking about the CZC Shadow Orange now. The main negative I saw in this brief exposure was the short slide serrations and the general lack of much slide real-estate to grab in failure drills. Sid I'm guessing your not wanting to shoot for competition? Or you're new to competition shooting? Guessing from the half cock statement. Anyways, I've had both. Both are great. I didn't care for the orange extras. The grips were worthless for me. I didint like the basepads either. I sold them. The shadow 2 is very popular now so, not sure how much interest you'd get in selling the extras now. Or the gun for that matter. You don't like the S2?.. the S1 is great but most folks like the S2 better. Anyways, you can't go wrong with either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) BTW, in my opinion, the CGW is probably going to have the better trigger. More crisp SA and smoother DA. Shoter reset too. Though, that's really not that important to some. Edited March 4, 2019 by B_RAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidpost Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, B_RAD said: I'm guessing your not wanting to shoot for competition? Or you're new to competition shooting? Guessing from the half cock statement. 1 I'm a Glock'aholic and as green to competition as they come. As I understand IDPA, the Shadow Orange in 9mm would be legal and I would start with the Hammer Down D/A. The Shadow 2 would get me out of the basic 'production' classes. The Shadow 2 is more of an IPSC / USPSA pistol in 40S&W for major and a bit overweight for basic IDPA. With all the different CZ "Shadow" pistols, I have been wrapped around the axle more than once. I thought I read in IPSC that I would start at the half cock position since the pistol wasn't S/A with a manual safety but, hey I could be totally wrong and off base & out in the weeds. My main focus is an SSP/ESP IDPA pistol in 9mm. If it crosses over into 3 gun or anything else, great but that is not driving my purchase. Whether I keep the orange grip panels or magazine baseplates is a different subject and not really driving a buy or not decision point. So for IDPA SSP/ESP, is the Target Orange in 9mm not the better "factory custom" option with its preferential side to frame fit? Sure Cajun Gun Works might have a touch better trigger but, they start with a basic factory production spec pistol and rework it so, that leads to my main discriminator between them and CZC. For IPSC / USPSA I would need a different pistol or I would be shooting minor, hence the 40S&W options come into play at this point. Right now, recreational shooting, concealed carry and IDPA are the main goals. If I have an ammo and travel budget for IPSC, I could come up with another ~$1500 for a different pistol if I need to. Edited March 4, 2019 by sidpost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) The S2 is too heavy and is a no go for IDPA for any division. The orange should be ssp leagal. I don't know of the CGW will be. It should be esp legal. I think the cgw parts will put you in esp since they're not factory parts. The czc/orange parts are. At least I think. Both are USPSA production legal. I don't know any rules for ipsc (they're different than USPSA). USPSA is what is shot in the US. (Mostly) I did not/could not tell any difference in the "fit" of the Orange vs a stock shadow. If I was buying a S1 for ssp I'd buy a stock shadow and replace the parts with CZC parts. That should be cheaper than buying one they build. If you dont want to do that then I'd buy one they build. I think the orange is more $ than one they build. Also, I don't think they (cgw) build the orange. They just sell them. @rowdy could speak more correctly on IDPA legal mods. Edited March 4, 2019 by B_RAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidpost Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 I believe the Shadow Orange pistols from CZC are built in the factory "custom shop" and are just 'imported' into the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, sidpost said: I believe the Shadow Orange pistols from CZC are built in the factory "custom shop" and are just 'imported' into the USA. I thinks so too. CZC is a custom shop here in AZ. Not the same as where the Orange is built. You may.alrewdy know that. Just making sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 There is an SP01 Shadow Orange that has custom work performed and there is also an SP01 Shadow Orange that is available as it came from CZ UB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 fwiw any Orange I've felt straight from CZ UB had a far far tighter frame to slide fit than any of the regular run factory guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidpost Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 Most people think of this "Orange" pistol: CZ 75 Tactical Sport Orange which while nice, isn't really competition legal for what most people really want to use it for. It is, however, a really nice pistol. I think it is a European IPSC style pistol in 9mm "Major" (or 9x21). And, for those wanting a S/A 40S&W, it fits that role as well. Then there is this one to further confuse things and people like myself: CZ Shadow 2 Black & Blue Then, CZC makes this one which seems to be targeted to wards IDPA: CZ SP01 Shadow Orange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidpost Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, rowdyb said: fwiw any Orange I've felt straight from CZ UB had a far far tighter frame to slide fit than any of the regular run factory guns. Thanks for the confirmation! The CZC Shadow Orange seems to be the pistol I'm looking for with its superior slide to frame fit, weight class meeting requirements and, overall superior build and 'hand tuning' compared to other similar good pistol options. The SIG P320 X-Five seems like a nice pistol but, I question its 'practical' nature. The X-CARRY was slightly better but, both were blocky and overly large IMHO. The trigger action was good and I think I could get used to the flat trigger pretty fast. I guess I'm a steel at heart sort of guy though, one of these or a 2011 variant might show up at some point in the very distant future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 the Orange is a series of pistols that CZ UB produces to a higher spec. better slide to frame fit. better barrel fit. more upgrades. safeties, mag releases. triggers, etc over the standard production model. they make the Tactical Sport, SP01 Shadow and coming soon a Shadow 2 version. when the pistols come into country, CZC will sometimes upgrade a version even more with other changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Listen to the man above ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidpost Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 32 minutes ago, eerw said: the Orange is a series of pistols that CZ UB produces to a higher spec. better slide to frame fit. better barrel fit. more upgrades. safeties, mag releases. triggers, etc over the standard production model. they make the Tactical Sport, SP01 Shadow and coming soon a Shadow 2 version. when the pistols come into country, CZC will sometimes upgrade a version even more with other changes. 26 minutes ago, rowdyb said: Listen to the man above ^^ DEFINITELY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) I'm gonna say it,.... I've only had one sp-01 shadow orange but in now way did it feel, funchtion, or shoot any better than any other CZC, GGW or AA shadow. In fact, I'd bet money that it'd be almost impossible to tell the difference between the two by feel only. Maybe I'm wrong? I believe that hype is marketing. The slide/frame and barrel fit did not seem to be any better or worse. I'm by no means an expert but I'm a decent shooter. IMO, the extra $ is not worth it! I'd buy the CZC shadow. The czc shadow is gonna have a short reset disconector.. I don't think the oragne does. To me, the orange is only worth it if you shoot IPSC. Saying all that, I'm guilty of buying stuff because I want the bells and whistles. So, can't fault anyone for that! Edited March 4, 2019 by B_RAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidpost Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) https://www.czub.cz/en/cz-75-sp-01-shadow-904.html The factory seems to disagree with you. The CZ 75 SP-01 SHADOW ORANGE pistol differs in new procedures and operations added as a part of the serial production process (e.g. the manual fitting of the barrel, the lateral definition of the free movement of the bolt and the sophisticated trigger mechanism). The gun has a burnished barrel and its "orange 2012" name is based principally on its long thin and aluminium grips of that colour. The weapon is presented in an identical case to that of the CZ 75 TS CZECHMATE. Edited March 4, 2019 by sidpost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, sidpost said: https://www.czub.cz/en/cz-75-sp-01-shadow-904.html The factory seems to disagree with you. The CZ 75 SP-01 SHADOW ORANGE pistol differs in new procedures and operations added as a part of the serial production process (e.g. the manual fitting of the barrel, the lateral definition of the free movement of the bolt and the sophisticated trigger mechanism). The gun has a burnished barrel and its "orange 2012" name is based principally on its long thin and aluminium grips of that colour. The weapon is presented in an identical case to that of the CZ 75 TS CZECHMATE. Well there you go. I mean, if it's on a website in vauge wording, then it's gotta be worth the extra $. And what does that say? Doesn't say it's tighter barrel/slide fit. Doesn't say that the barrel is better fit. Doesn't say, it's more accurate or more reliable. Seriously though, it's a good gun! I wasn't trying to say otherwise. Just giving you my opinion and offering up info that might save you money. I'd rather have one worked over by CZC or CGW or AA. Trigger is gonna be what most people consider to be better. Smoother DA pull, more crisp SA, shorter reset. Though, that's pretty simple to DIY, and cheaper too. Anyways, hope you enjoy whatever you choose! Edited March 4, 2019 by B_RAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidpost Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 Well, if I could see one in person things would be much easier. Comparing the factory models to the CZC was a real eye opener. It was more than a simple trigger job. Too bad I'm not going through Mesa, AZ anytime to see one in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidpost Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 Also, if one of the IPSC/USPSA compliant production models was legal for IDPA SSP/ESP it would have probably followed me home on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner01 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) If you go with the "factory" shadow orange you will still need to do either a CGW tuneup or CZC tuneup to make it feel like the CGW shadow. I have both and if I had a choice of only one I would go for the CGW or CZC tuned gun (either by done them or DIY) over the "fitted" factory orange. Now if money is not an object get the CZC Shadow Orange and have the best of both worlds in one delivered to your door ready to go. Edited March 6, 2019 by gunner01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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