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Chris777

1050 setup with resizing die over the swager station?

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Hey 1050er's,

 

Ran into an issue where some 9mm cases made thru to the primer station and caused a few untended "boom" issues.  Trying to find a more fool proof way to removing the spent primers from 9mm cases. 

 

I have Mighty Armory decaping die and was thinking about installing this in station 2 (rezine/decap station) and then taking the decapping rod out of my resizing die and installing it in the swager station to both resize and act as a backer die for 9mm cases.

 

Not sure if this setup will be any more foolproof in removing spent primers, but wondered if any one else has tried something similar and had good or poor success or thought it made any sort of difference in their reloading.

 

Thanks...

Chris 

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 When I process my brass that’s sort of what my set up is my first station is the mighty armory the second station sizing die with the de-capping  then I go to the priming station and then my last is my expansion station this is what I do when I process and prime.

 

 

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You probably got some pull backed primers, or ringers, which caused the kaboom.  IMHO,  The only real fool proof way to avoid this is to process your brass first. Or buy processed brass, or have someone process it for you.

 

I load/process on an AmmoBot driven 1050, both 9mm and 45ACP.  

 

Process: 

Station 2: Lee universal decapping die with AB Berdan sensor. Lee pin ground to 45* and vacuum to pull primers off (these two things alone may help you a lot).

Station 3: The Judge sensor, with Primer Pocket Probe.  The Judge catches all sorts of bad stuff and tall cases, the probe catches primer pull backs, ringers, etc.

Station 6: Dillon size die minus pin

Station 8: EGW-U die minus pin

 

Load:

Station 2: Dillon sizing/decap die, just in case a non-processed piece of brass sneaks by.

Station 3: Lyman Die in place of expander.

Station 4. EGA primer hold-down die

Station 5: powder drop with MBF PTX

Station 6: MBF bullet drop

Station 7: Dillon seat die

Station 8: Dillon taper crimp die.

 

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I've heard of people sanding the tip of the decapper pin very slightly to give it more of a point rather than a dome, but have not tried myself. Had primer pull-back only a couple of times through 5k 9mm on my 1050. Pretty new to it though. 

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22 hours ago, GregJ said:

You probably got some pull backed primers, or ringers, which caused the kaboom.  IMHO,  The only real fool proof way to avoid this is to process your brass first. Or buy processed brass, or have someone process it for you. 

 

I load/process on an AmmoBot driven 1050, both 9mm and 45ACP.  

 

Process: 

Station 2: Lee universal decapping die with AB Berdan sensor. Lee pin ground to 45* and vacuum to pull primers off (these two things alone may help you a lot). 

Station 3: The Judge sensor, with Primer Pocket Probe.  The Judge catches all sorts of bad stuff and tall cases, the probe catches primer pull backs, ringers, etc.

Station 6: Dillon size die minus pin 

Station 8: EGW-U die minus pin

 

Load:

Station 2: Dillon sizing/decap die, just in case a non-processed piece of brass sneaks by.

Station 3: Lyman Die in place of expander. 

Station 4. EGA primer hold-down die 

Station 5: powder drop with MBF PTX

Station 6: MBF bullet drop

Station 7: Dillon seat die

Station 8: Dillon taper crimp die.

 

Very nice setup.. thanks for the info..

I have found even the MA decapping die can let some stubborn primed cases by.  Had several that the MA decapper just punched a hold thru and the primer stayed.  With the resizer in station 3 and using the dillion swager, its very easy to feel when a primer has not been ejected.  Just need to slow things down and bit and pay more attention.

Edited by Chris777

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 When I process my brass that’s sort of what my set up is my first station is the mighty armory the second station sizing die with the de-capping  then I go to the priming station and then my last is my expansion station this is what I do when I process and prime.
 
 
The MA die is yuuuge!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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On 2/20/2019 at 10:00 AM, Chris777 said:

Very nice setup.. thanks for the info..

I have found even the MA decapping die can let some stubborn primed cases by.  Had several that the MA decapper just punched a hold thru and the primer stayed.  With the resizer in station 3 and using the dillion swager, its very easy to feel when a primer has not been ejected.  Just need to slow things down and bit and pay more attention.

 

If a pin gets thru a primer it means the primers are deteriorating. This is generally due to moisture. Dissimilar metals touching cause a galvanic corrosion which obviously weakens the integrity of the primer metal. Many of them end up with a punched out flat leaving the ring in the pocket. 

I’ve made a few changes to our pin design to help overcome some of the problems you guys run into. Including a high polishing to the enhanced pin design. 

No pullbacks reported to me in more than 2 months and no ringers.  We refer to the pin as our standard profile. Pics are on our website. 

 

Wayne

Mighty Armory 

Edited by WaynePatrick

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On 2/18/2019 at 12:08 PM, Chris777 said:

Hey 1050er's,

 

Ran into an issue where some 9mm cases made thru to the primer station and caused a few untended "boom" issues.  Trying to find a more fool proof way to removing the spent primers from 9mm cases. 

 

I have Mighty Armory decaping die and was thinking about installing this in station 2 (rezine/decap station) and then taking the decapping rod out of my resizing die and installing it in the swager station to both resize and act as a backer die for 9mm cases.

 

Not sure if this setup will be any more foolproof in removing spent primers, but wondered if any one else has tried something similar and had good or poor success or thought it made any sort of difference in their reloading.

 

Thanks...

Chris 

 

9mm can be a royal pita. Try our .057 pin.

Many of my customers are having great success with it on 9 and 40. Slow down to -1500 and your problem should be solved.

also check out our new Shorty Decapping and Backer Dies. They’re made specially for auto. 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 2/18/2019 at 11:08 AM, Chris777 said:

Hey 1050er's,

 

Ran into an issue where some 9mm cases made thru to the primer station and caused a few untended "boom" issues.  Trying to find a more fool proof way to removing the spent primers from 9mm cases. 

 

I have Mighty Armory decaping die and was thinking about installing this in station 2 (rezine/decap station) and then taking the decapping rod out of my resizing die and installing it in the swager station to both resize and act as a backer die for 9mm cases.

 

Not sure if this setup will be any more foolproof in removing spent primers, but wondered if any one else has tried something similar and had good or poor success or thought it made any sort of difference in their reloading.

 

Thanks...

Chris 

So on my 1050, I just tried using the Dillon decap and size in station 2. Then removed my stage rod and put a Lee universal decal to ensure any primer pull backs would get punched out. I made it through 100 rounds and had 7 primers knocked out by the universal die on stage 3. All ammo was loaded consistently and primers looked to be consistent as well. I may try and run this for a few thousand rounds this weekend.

Edited by shakin_bakin

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, shakin_bakin said:

So on my 1050, I just tried using the Dillon decap and size in station 2. Then removed my stage rod and put a Lee universal decal to ensure any primer pull backs would get punched out. I made it through 100 rounds and had 7 primers knocked out by the universal die on stage 3. All ammo was loaded consistently and primers looked to be consistent as well. I may try and run this for a few thousand rounds this weekend.

I run dual sizing  dies. Works awesome and I have 50k loaded this way. The only downside is you lose your swaging function. 

Edited by mach1soldier

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7 hours ago, rlapid216 said:

F&FB's swage rod supposedly locks up the press if there's a pull back or ringer. I'm planning to get on due to occasional pull backs I'm experiencing. Does anyone have first hand experience with this swage rod? http://fastandfriendlybrass.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=54

Yep. I've got it. It doesn't lock my press up. Maybe I have the tension to high though. I will tell you though, that rod is strong. I pulled my rod last night to try the double decapping  setup and my rod looked brand new.

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2 hours ago, mach1soldier said:

I run dual sizing  dies. Works awesome and I have 50k loaded this way. The only downside is you lose your swaging function. 

I was wondering how much that really matters on a 9MM case? Probably makes them all uniformed... but does it really matter? I was thinking I could chrono some rounds with and without and see if there was a difference in SD velocity.

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It doesn’t matter for quality of ammo or consistency in my opinion. 99 percent of the brass I buy isn’t crimped. So I’m not worried. If you get a bunch of military brass, you will have issues

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On 2/19/2019 at 9:16 AM, GregJ said:

You probably got some pull backed primers, or ringers, which caused the kaboom.  IMHO,  The only real fool proof way to avoid this is to process your brass first. Or buy processed brass, or have someone process it for you.

 

I load/process on an AmmoBot driven 1050, both 9mm and 45ACP.  

 

Process: 

Station 2: Lee universal decapping die with AB Berdan sensor. Lee pin ground to 45* and vacuum to pull primers off (these two things alone may help you a lot).

Station 3: The Judge sensor, with Primer Pocket Probe.  The Judge catches all sorts of bad stuff and tall cases, the probe catches primer pull backs, ringers, etc.

Station 6: Dillon size die minus pin

Station 8: EGW-U die minus pin

 

Load:

Station 2: Dillon sizing/decap die, just in case a non-processed piece of brass sneaks by.

Station 3: Lyman Die in place of expander.

Station 4. EGA primer hold-down die

Station 5: powder drop with MBF PTX

Station 6: MBF bullet drop

Station 7: Dillon seat die

Station 8: Dillon taper crimp die.

 

Hi GregJ, how do you setup the vacuum on station 2 thanks in advance  

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Posted (edited)

Wow, what a bunch of fluff just to load 9mm...

All I have ever used is a U die size/decap in #1, Swage in 2, and prime and load all in one pass. Never had a primer pull back problem, maybe cause I dry tumble? Technically, my one pass, manual system is faster than a 2 pass automated setup, cause I load 900-1000rph...the 2 pass automated is maybe doing 1500rph divided by 2, = 750rph to get completed ammo. Plus the twice the handling of the brass...

 

 

Oh yea, to answer the OP, putting a size die on the swage station will not allow the swage to work correctly. It needs the holding down action of the hold down die. A size die will let the swage push the case up further into the die, resulting in an incomplete swage.

Edited by RiggerJJ

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Posted (edited)
On 7/13/2019 at 4:39 PM, RiggerJJ said:

Never had a primer pull back problem, maybe cause I dry tumble? Technically, my one pass, manual system is faster than a 2 pass automated setup, cause I load 900-1000rph...the 2 pass automated is maybe doing 1500rph divided by 2, = 750rph to get completed ammo. Plus the twice the handling of the brass...

 

Agree that handling brass twice can be a PITA.  However, I still argue that overall it is faster, and more importantly very brass related stoppages during loading.  I process 9m about 3500 CPH, this ensures that when I start loading, the brass is squared away, and will not have to deal with any Berdans, junk inside cases, 380 mixed in, etc, etc.  When I load with my AB, it lopes along at about 2500 CPH.  I can easily crank it up higher, but dont feel the need to.  YMMV.  :cheers:

ADD:  If you manually load, then yes it is easier to deal with brass issues (Berdans, etc) during loading.  However once you automate, using processed brass really makes the loading process less problematic, and highly recommended. 

 

On 7/12/2019 at 10:44 PM, Gviz said:

Hi GregJ, how do you setup the vacuum on station 2 thanks in advance  

I run the primer drop tube into a the lid of a 1 Gal paint bucket, then a hose into the same lid from a HD Bucket Head vacuum (fits on top of any 5 gal bucket).  The primers stay in the 1G bucket instead of being sucked into the vacuum.  There's lots of ways, mine is just one.  It really doesnt take a lot of vacuum force.  You also need to make sure you have a good seal between the press frame and the bracket that holds the primer drop tube.  

Edited by GregJ

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18 minutes ago, oteroman said:

Pictures of that vacuum set-up please.

Visual Guy

 

Will post a few tonight. 

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I am Not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Station 1 standard sizing and de capping die. Stage 2 Lee or EGW undersized die. Took took the swage  off. Don’t use it. 

 

But I have 2 dies ensuring de-capitation. 

 

On 223 I do separate distinct processes. Bottle neck cases require much more attention to processing. 

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On 6/12/2019 at 12:00 AM, rlapid216 said:

F&FB's swage rod supposedly locks up the press if there's a pull back or ringer. I'm planning to get on due to occasional pull backs I'm experiencing. Does anyone have first hand experience with this swage rod? http://fastandfriendlybrass.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=54

 

That's what I use, it doesn't lock the press up but you sure know something is right, since I've started grinding a small angle on the tip of the decapping pin I rarely get any pull backs now.  I also prep the brass first so there's no live primers on the first run.  When I look at that 5 gallon bucket full of brass I really wish I decided to have kids, I'm pretty sure that why my dad made me. 😂

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