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Climbhard

WSSSC- setup crew shooting stages weekend before.

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Tell me I shouldn’t be pissed.   WSSSC is next weekend and videos are going on Facebook of competitors shooting the stages this weekend as part of a “club match”.  Oh they say not the same. Much tweeting to be done.  BS. The timing on the swingers is the same, walls and positions are the same.  Targets are for the most part the same.  Ok. Maybe the take one target out here and love this other one a little left or right.  It’s still the same stage.  So much for “level playing field”.  Tell me I shouldn’t be pissed.  

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Is this your first Major match?

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I suppose it would be better to have 12 untested stages. 🙄

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I'm brand new to USPSA and I would generally expect that match stages get tested before they're run in a major. And since stages are released before the match, I expect that a fair number of clubs may mimic those stages in their club match leading into the major.

I mean...maybe that's not the case, but that's what I would expect to happen.

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Changing one target on a stage makes it a different stage. They'll change more than just a target here or there. The stages need to be checked. A lot. Even running a set up and staff match day sometimes isn't enough to get the bugs worked out.

 

That said.......who cares? It's a kick ass, fun match every year. No huge prize table and nobody gaming their class to win a bottle of lube or a hard case roller bag. If ya ain't one of about 3 people shooting the match that has a chance to take home a plaque, go have fun. I know i will.

 

Oh and don't be pissed :)

 

 Al

 

 

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I always thought that Rio Salado locals have a great advantage all the time due to the very very deep talent pool that shoots there weekly 😉

A GM buddy described it as a gladiator camp. :cheers:

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The idea of a run through is to find the issues and correct them before the match is for real.  Guaranteed that they will find issues and any single run on the previous COF, even if it's not changed, is of doubtful advantage.  How many times do you get a re-shoot run that's better than the original?

It's not like Steel Challenge where you are committing the COF to muscle memory.

Also any tricks gleaned from a test run won't be kept secret for long.

So don't get mad, stay focused and hopefully they will have any issues solved so you won't be forced to have a re-shoot during the match.

Oh and have fun, I envy you being able to attend.

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Pretty much all major matches are this way. Only way to get the bugs worked out. Also helps the RO's do better job figuring out any quirks or most efficient way to score it. Fix issues with the briefing etc.
Only time I would have an issue with this would be secret stages... Because they arnt secret to everyone.

Give me 5 or so minutes to walk through 1 stage before shooting watch a couple folks shoot, show up early or day before and walk stages if you like. , and I dont see someone shooting it last week as having any advantage.

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It's only tier 1 local, but as soon as my club releases the stage diagrams for the weekend, I set them up on my range and run them a couple of times.

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So you're pissed that volunteers are setting up the stages for you, while you sit home and drink a beer and watch hockey,  and they will get to shoot the stages (or similar ones) first, and you think that is some sort of advantage?

 

When you get more experienced, you will stop caring about stuff that truly doesn't matter, and you will focus on your own shooting, over which you have 100% control.

 

I set up a stage a couple weeks ago for a local match that is pretty similar to the one I am doing for our section match later in the year. I did it as a proof of concept and to see folks run it and look for issues, so I could make a few tweaks and make it a really good stage for the section match. I don't know if they are planning on tweaking the stages for the final match or not, but the bottom line is it doesn't really matter. You can learn everything you need to know about a stage without shooting it, and for %90 of people, shooting a stage a second time does not result in any improvement.

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27 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

So you're pissed that volunteers are setting up the stages for you, while you sit home and drink a beer and watch hockey,  and they will get to shoot the stages (or similar ones) first, and you think that is some sort of advantage?

 

When you get more experienced, you will stop caring about stuff that truly doesn't matter, and you will focus on your own shooting, over which you have 100% control.

 

I set up a stage a couple weeks ago for a local match that is pretty similar to the one I am doing for our section match later in the year. I did it as a proof of concept and to see folks run it and look for issues, so I could make a few tweaks and make it a really good stage for the section match. I don't know if they are planning on tweaking the stages for the final match or not, but the bottom line is it doesn't really matter. You can learn everything you need to know about a stage without shooting it, and for %90 of people, shooting a stage a second time does not result in any improvement.

 

Wait a minute... shooting skill is what wins matches??? 🤣

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We often run club competitions while match stages are under construction. Sometimes all walls are up, sometimes only sections. However, more often than not, there are some significant differences between the club competition and the match stage that don't just involve locations of targets but also the shooting area itself. I do, however, feel that "home field advantage" is something you will never be able to eliminate. Just being in an environment you are familiar with can be a huge advantage as you're more relaxed etc.

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On 2/16/2019 at 8:39 PM, Climbhard said:

Tell me I shouldn’t be pissed.   
Tell me I shouldn’t be pissed.  


You shouldn't be pissed.

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My local club finishes set up Friday morning and then we shoot a Friday afternoon match and a Saturday match. Usually 15  - 25 folks shoot Friday and then 60 or so Saturday. 

Does not seem to have any noticeable effect on scores. 

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34 minutes ago, davidb72 said:


You shouldn't be pissed.

 

No. He should be irate. 

 

Not because it’s justified, but because we need the amusement. 

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There were 2 stages that resembled 2 stages at WSSSC.  The targets will be different and I don't think there is any real advantage.  We only shot it once and the swingers speed can and most likely will change.  Different target array a week later with 11 other stages is not going make a difference.  You can always set up the entire match and practice it if you like, as the stages have been published.  

Edited by echotango

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1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

No. He should be irate. 

 

Not because it’s justified, but because we need the amusement. 

 

images-2.jpeg.35499a242271d6aa851e6df34ee87fce.jpeg

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1 hour ago, echotango said:

You can always set up the entire match and practice it if you like, as the stages have been published.  

 

It’s a good thing the diagrams are always to scale, and look exactly like the actual stage.

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6 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

It’s a good thing the diagrams are always to scale, and look exactly like the actual stage.

🤣  I was being sarcastic.  I guess it didn't come thru. 

Edited by echotango

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1 hour ago, echotango said:

🤣  I was being sarcastic.  I guess it didn't come thru. 

 

FWIW I took that both of you were being sarcastic, and oh so true. 

I gave up years ago trying to decipher a cof from the published book, maybe I'm dense (actually I know I am at times) but if I get wrapped up in trying to figure the cof out that way I'm lost.  I need to keep the mind clear so when I walk up to the stage I can "see" the course without any prior thoughts.  I've even stopped checking out the stages in detail before I get to them.  I usually try to walk around and listen to the gossip for any traps that have developed or areas to be more conscious of. 

About the only thing I now look for are extreme items, say 75 yard Poppers (seen it) or how many activated targets and any special issues.  

 

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20 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

 

FWIW I took that both of you were being sarcastic.  

 

 

There you go. 👍

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17 hours ago, motosapiens said:

So you're pissed that volunteers are setting up the stages for you, while you sit home and drink a beer and watch hockey,  and they will get to shoot the stages (or similar ones) first, and you think that is some sort of advantage?

 

When you get more experienced, you will stop caring about stuff that truly doesn't matter, and you will focus on your own shooting, over which you have 100% control.

Just for the record I help run two local matches a month so I do my share of hammer swinging.  I guess since I've only been in this sport for about 5 years, a couple nationals, numerous area championships and level II matches.  I guess I'll learn to not care as much as I strive to reach your level of wisdom.  

 

Yes, I think being able to shoot the swingers and max traps ahead of time to learn what timing works is an advantage.  No, I don't really think it will change the outcome.

Edited by Climbhard

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On 2/17/2019 at 9:42 AM, Joe4d said:

Pretty much all major matches are this way. 

Well that was news to me.  First time I ever saw video of the stage being shot on FB before a match.

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1 hour ago, Climbhard said:

Yes, I think being able to shoot the swingers and max traps ahead of time to learn what timing works is an advantage.  No, I don't really think it will change the outcome.

 

If it won't change the outcome, how can it be an advantage? I'm pretty good at math, and that just doesn't make sense.

 

Now if you really want an advantage, show up a day early, and watch the staff shoot all the movers, *exactly* the way they will be set up for the main match.

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