LarLaw Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I am reloading Berry 9mm 124 gr HBFN TP with Winchester 231 powder and am having trouble with the minmum OAL. The load data on the Hodgdon website states that the minimum OAL should be 1.150" which will not chamber in my Glock 19 (it fails the plunk test miserably). I made some dummy rounds and found that I have to go down to 1.40" for it to pass the plunk test in the Glock barrel. Since I am fairly new to reloading, I called Hodgdon and they told me that they tested this same bullet and I should never go below 1.150 to avoid excessive pressures. If that is true, then I cannot use this bullet in my G19. Have any of you guys experienced this? What is the minimum OAL you use for this bullet with Winchester 231? My Springfield XDS would have to have an even shorter OAL for this bullet to chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, LarLaw said: I am reloading Berry 9mm 124 gr HBFN TP with Winchester 231 powder and am having trouble with the minmum OAL. The load data on the Hodgdon website states that the minimum OAL should be 1.150" which will not chamber in my Glock 19 (it fails the plunk test miserably). I made some dummy rounds and found that I have to go down to 1.40" for it to pass the plunk test in the Glock barrel. Since I am fairly new to reloading, I called Hodgdon and they told me that they tested this same bullet and I should never go below 1.150 to avoid excessive pressures. If that is true, then I cannot use this bullet in my G19. Have any of you guys experienced this? What is the minimum OAL you use for this bullet with Winchester 231? My Springfield XDS would have to have an even shorter OAL for this bullet to chamber. Drop it to 1.13 and reduce the 231 half a grain and work up from there. I loaded every round ever made for my Glocks at 1.13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarLaw Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Thanks Sarge. The 1.13 OAL may also chamber in my XDS. I'll try that tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I mean, within reason, their comment about over pressure means if you shorten and leave the charge the same. Just make sure however short you go you drop charges as well. Probably search the 9mm reloading section and find a recipe or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarLaw Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Great advice. I don't want to blow up my gun and/or my face. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4n2t0 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) Hodgdon gave you a "cover their ass" response. As long as you're within the charge range provided in the data you can safely load as short as necessary. I load a plated bullet to 1.09 for my Shadow. As always, start at the minimum charge weight and work your way up. Additional information: https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/271170-col-for-147-plated-round-nose/?tab=comments#comment-3018565 https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/271129-9mm-crimp-die-adjustment-needed/?tab=comments#comment-3018138 Edited February 17, 2019 by 4n2t0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, LarLaw said: Hodgdon website states that the minimum OAL should be 1.150" Hodgdon told me I should never go below 1.150 to avoid excessive pressures. That's ridiculous. WW231 is fine down to at least 1.12" - there is so little powder in that case, you're not anywhere near a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taadski Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 The difference in length between a round nose bullet design (like the berry's 124 TP RN) and the flat point bullet you're loading is significant. If you start looking at these lengths, you'll note that the FP load will have a MUCH shorter OAL if the same seating depth is maintained. My production load is 1.065 with the bullet you're using and the seating depth (amount of bullet in the case) is very similar to the Berry's 124 RN in an OAL of 1.150. FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarLaw Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 I just used a dummy round with the plunk test to sneak up on a maximum OAL for my Springfield XDS. The maximum OAL that will pass the plunk test for a Berry 9mm HBFN TP in that barrel is 1.054. If I allow for some variance in production and put my absolute low at 1.050, is that too short to try? Has anyone tried loading them this short? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Shortest I recall loading any 9mm was 1.08". Do you have use of a chronograph? Start low and work up to make Minor and call it good. I am loading 147s with HP38 at the Hodgdon maximum for all but the one gun with "fast barrel," but they shoot fine and the guns are not getting beat up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarLaw Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Yes, I do have a chronograph and plan to try some very cautious tests. Just wondering if anyone has tried to load them that short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Is your g19 a gen 5? My gen5 g19 with the new marksman barrel takes slightly less oal too, the leade in the barrel isn't cut as long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarLaw Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 My G19 is a gen 3. I used the 1.13" OAL that Sarge suggested for the Berry 9mm 124 gr HBFN TP and that seems to work. Did some testing this morning and it seems that 3.8 gr of W231 is the lowest load where I have no problems with ejection. That load averaged 918 fps. Will do some more testing with gradual increases and see what happens. I'm a little nervous about dropping the OAL down to 1.05" for my XDS, but will start with 3.4 gr of W231 and work my way up until I have no ejection problems and go from there. 1.054" is the absolute maximum that will pass the plunk test on that gun with that bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysrgu Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Berrys hbfn 124 i run 3.9g tight group 1.058 in my shadow 2 no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I'd try some other bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarLaw Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Unfortunately, I have 1000 of these. When they are gone I will move on to something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 5 hours ago, LarLaw said: Unfortunately, I have 1000 of these. When they are gone I will move on to something else. When I get down to about 3,000 it's time for a re-order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_C Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 On 2/16/2019 at 6:38 PM, LarLaw said: I called Hodgdon and they told me that they tested this same bullet and I should never go below 1.150 to avoid excessive pressures. If that is true, then I cannot use this bullet in my G19. Have any of you guys experienced this? Glock is doing their corporate CYA-routine. If you're loading near max, based on +P load data, right on the edge of blowing up your Glock, loading 0.01-in deeper could possibly become a safety issue. If you're loading to standard pressure, and also loading a max-pressure load, reducing your OAL by 0.01 could take your ammunition over the edge from standard pressure to +P. I intentionally select slower powders that provide the velocity I want to achieve with a significant margin of safety that I'm not losing sleep over seating depth or over normal variations related to typical powder dispensing systems. I'm not trying to save $0.00000019 per round by shooting smaller charges of faster (higher-pressure) powders. BTW: if you were to measure every powder charge you drop on a progressive press, you will see what variations can occur. If you're loading at max with a fast powder, there is some level of probable risk that your pet load may unexpectedly result in a load that exceeds that published maximum. Also, don't forget, the SAAMI max is based upon an AVERAGE max pressure, not an absolute Max Pressure. Capt_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STORMINORMAN Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Note, please: there's a big difference between Berrys HBR(ound)N(ose)- HP & their HBF(lat)N(ose)-HP... The OAL of 1.150" suggested for the Round Nose takes into consideration... The ROUND (POINTY) NOSE! Loading the FLAT NOSE to the approximate same OAL as other typical 9mm 124 or 125 gr FLAT NOSE or JHP'S @ 1.060" (+ or -) will give excellent results. This is a great bullet for 357 SIG target work as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfieldxd Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 I've used this bullet with CFE-Pistol in my XD 9 mod 2. OAL was 1.050 with 5.2gr CFE Pistol. I use the same amount of CFE Pistol in my 124 RN bullets with an OAL of 1.135. Velocity's were pretty close to each other. The HBFP-TP bullet is .534" long compared to the RN @ .585" Difference of .051" So If you seated the RN at 1.150 OAL and seated the HBFP-TP at 1.099 OAL you would have the same amount of bullet inside the case. The Hollow Back would also allow for more case volume. Load up those HBFP-TP with the OAL you need to Pass the plunk test and start at the minimum powder drop for W231 which I believe is 3.9 gr. (double check me on that) and work up some loads. You shouldn't have any issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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