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OAL problem with Berry 9mm 124 gr HBFN TP


LarLaw
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I am reloading Berry 9mm 124 gr HBFN TP with Winchester 231 powder and am having trouble with the minmum OAL.  The load data on the Hodgdon website states that the minimum OAL should be 1.150" which will not chamber in my Glock 19 (it fails the plunk test miserably).  I made some dummy rounds and found that I have to go down to 1.40" for it to pass the plunk test in the Glock barrel.  Since I am fairly new to reloading, I called Hodgdon and they told me that they tested this same bullet and I should never go below 1.150 to avoid excessive pressures.  If that is true, then I cannot use this bullet in my G19.  Have any of you guys experienced this?  What is the minimum OAL you use for this bullet with Winchester 231?

My Springfield XDS would have to have an even shorter OAL for this bullet to chamber.

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11 minutes ago, LarLaw said:

I am reloading Berry 9mm 124 gr HBFN TP with Winchester 231 powder and am having trouble with the minmum OAL.  The load data on the Hodgdon website states that the minimum OAL should be 1.150" which will not chamber in my Glock 19 (it fails the plunk test miserably).  I made some dummy rounds and found that I have to go down to 1.40" for it to pass the plunk test in the Glock barrel.  Since I am fairly new to reloading, I called Hodgdon and they told me that they tested this same bullet and I should never go below 1.150 to avoid excessive pressures.  If that is true, then I cannot use this bullet in my G19.  Have any of you guys experienced this?  What is the minimum OAL you use for this bullet with Winchester 231?

My Springfield XDS would have to have an even shorter OAL for this bullet to chamber.

Drop it to 1.13 and reduce the 231 half a grain and work up from there. I loaded every round ever made for my Glocks at 1.13

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Hodgdon gave you a "cover their ass" response. As long as you're within the charge range provided in the data you can safely load as short as necessary. I load a plated bullet to 1.09 for my Shadow. As always, start at the minimum charge weight and work your way up.

 

Additional information:

 

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/271170-col-for-147-plated-round-nose/?tab=comments#comment-3018565

 

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/271129-9mm-crimp-die-adjustment-needed/?tab=comments#comment-3018138

Edited by 4n2t0
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1 hour ago, LarLaw said:

 Hodgdon website states that the minimum OAL should be 1.150"   Hodgdon told me  I should never go below 1.150 to avoid excessive pressures.  

 

😂     That's ridiculous.     :surprise:

 

WW231 is fine down to at least 1.12" - there is so little powder in that

case, you're not anywhere near a problem.

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The difference in length between a round nose bullet design (like the berry's 124 TP RN) and the flat point bullet you're loading is significant.  If you start looking at these lengths, you'll note that the FP load will have a MUCH shorter OAL if the same seating depth is maintained.  My production load is 1.065 with the bullet you're using and the seating depth (amount of bullet in the case) is very similar to the Berry's 124 RN in an OAL of 1.150.  FWIW.    

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I just used a dummy round with the plunk test to sneak up on a maximum OAL for my Springfield XDS.  The maximum OAL that will pass the plunk test for a Berry 9mm HBFN TP in that barrel is 1.054.  If I allow for some variance in production and put my absolute low at 1.050, is that too short to try?  Has anyone tried loading them this short?

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Shortest I recall loading any 9mm was 1.08". 

 

Do you have use of a chronograph?  Start low and work up to make Minor and call it good. 

 

I am loading 147s with HP38 at the Hodgdon maximum for all but the one gun with "fast barrel," but they shoot fine and the guns are not getting beat up. 

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My G19 is a gen 3.  I used the 1.13" OAL that Sarge suggested for the Berry 9mm 124 gr HBFN TP and that seems to work.  Did some testing this morning and it seems that 3.8 gr of W231 is the lowest load where I have no problems with ejection.  That load averaged 918 fps.  Will do some more testing with gradual increases and see what happens.

 

I'm a little nervous about dropping the OAL down to 1.05" for my XDS, but will start with 3.4 gr of W231 and work my way up until I have no ejection problems and go from there.  1.054" is the absolute maximum that will pass the plunk test on that gun with that bullet.

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  • 1 month later...
On 2/16/2019 at 6:38 PM, LarLaw said:

I called Hodgdon and they told me that they tested this same bullet and I should never go below 1.150 to avoid excessive pressures.  If that is true, then I cannot use this bullet in my G19.  Have any of you guys experienced this?

 

Glock is doing their corporate CYA-routine.  If you're loading near max, based on +P load data, right on the edge of blowing up your Glock, loading 0.01-in deeper could possibly become a safety issue.  

If you're loading to standard pressure, and also loading a max-pressure load, reducing your OAL by 0.01 could take your ammunition over the edge from standard pressure to +P.

 

I intentionally select slower powders that provide the velocity I want to achieve with a significant margin of safety that I'm not losing sleep over seating depth or over normal variations related to typical powder dispensing systems.

 

I'm not trying to save $0.00000019 per round by shooting smaller charges of faster (higher-pressure) powders.

 

BTW: if you were to measure every powder charge you drop on a progressive press, you will see what variations can occur.  If you're loading at max with a fast powder, there is some level of probable risk that your pet load may unexpectedly result in a load that exceeds that published maximum.

 

Also, don't forget, the SAAMI max is based  upon an AVERAGE max pressure, not an absolute Max Pressure.

 

Capt_C

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  • 1 year later...

Note, please: there's a big difference between Berrys HBR(ound)N(ose)- HP & their HBF(lat)N(ose)-HP...

 

The OAL of 1.150" suggested for the Round Nose takes into consideration...  The ROUND (POINTY) NOSE!

Loading the FLAT NOSE to the approximate same OAL as other typical 9mm 124 or 125 gr FLAT NOSE or  JHP'S @ 1.060" (+ or -) will give excellent results.  This is a great bullet for 357 SIG target work as well.

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I've used this bullet with CFE-Pistol in my XD 9 mod 2.  OAL was 1.050 with 5.2gr CFE Pistol.   I use the same amount of CFE Pistol in my 124 RN bullets with an OAL of 1.135.

Velocity's were pretty close to each other.   The HBFP-TP bullet is .534" long  compared to the RN @ .585"  Difference of .051" 

So If you seated the RN at 1.150 OAL and seated the HBFP-TP at 1.099 OAL you would have the same amount of bullet inside the case. The Hollow Back would also allow for more case

volume.   Load up those HBFP-TP with the OAL you need to Pass the plunk test and start at the minimum powder drop for W231 which I believe is 3.9 gr. (double check me on that) and  work up some loads.  You shouldn't have any issues.

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