Rule 9.1.3

[pjb45]

Having been to matches (local) in several states, if it is an agreed upon practice for people to tape and remember the score prior to the clock RO seeing them done quite well with no arguments.  Any questionable hit is not taped and saved for the RO and shooter.

Then again most of the shooters on the squad are RO and CROs.

[Sarge]

35 minutes ago, pjb45 said:

Having been to matches (local) in several states, if it is an agreed upon practice for people to tape and remember the score prior to the clock RO seeing them done quite well with no arguments.  Any questionable hit is not taped and saved for the RO and shooter.

Then again most of the shooters on the squad are RO and CROs.

Same thing around here. On a typical day there are more CRO's/RO's on a squad then non certified. Most have been doing it a long time as well. I have pasted and remembered scores on a whole swath of a stage many times. And as you say, If there is a miss or NS etc they get to look at it if they want.

[gunshrink]

I have been an RO since 2011 - while I have passed every time it took a lot of time even with the open book. The initial open book even with the “open book” took me over three hours with multiple monitors and a good search engine - but I got 95% so worth the time. Tonight I did the “new and improved? RO test.” It is now up from 10 to 20 and I think 90% requirement. For the first time you can print out the test and do/review prior to going live. I have lots of college and a PhD but even year until I get the pass it is stressful - but necessary and a good review prior to the season beginning. Our first match is March 23 so getting closer and doing the test got me even more psyched. Back to the test 100% but 157 minutes to do. Few bends and turns on this years edition but if you think through the question and take your time it is very doable and a good measure. Good luck with the class.

[Lastcat]

51 minutes ago, gunshrink said:

I have been an RO since 2011 - while I have passed every time it took a lot of time even with the open book. The initial open book even with the “open book” took me over three hours with multiple monitors and a good search engine - but I got 95% so worth the time. Tonight I did the “new and improved? RO test.” It is now up from 10 to 20 and I think 90% requirement. For the first time you can print out the test and do/review prior to going live. I have lots of college and a PhD but even year until I get the pass it is stressful - but necessary and a good review prior to the season beginning. Our first match is March 23 so getting closer and doing the test got me even more psyched. Back to the test 100% but 157 minutes to do. Few bends and turns on this years edition but if you think through the question and take your time it is very doable and a good measure. Good luck with the class.

 

Thanks gs,

From what I have read so far, it's 85% to pass as of Feb 2019. Printing is a good idea, I hope that option is available. Were you able to have that option at the USPSA site when you took your finals? I'll be doing the same, dual monitors, pdf file search, and printed rules book and coffee. Good luck with your first match.

[DKorn]

11 hours ago, Sarge said:

Same thing around here. On a typical day there are more CRO's/RO's on a squad then non certified. Most have been doing it a long time as well. I have pasted and remembered scores on a whole swath of a stage many times. And as you say, If there is a miss or NS etc they get to look at it if they want.

 

I think in this case the person scoring the target is acting as a temporary “assigned range officer”, which satisfies the rule. If someone random does it without asking and the RO didn’t want them to, then it would be a reshoot, but when the RO asks (verbally or by pointing), he/she has “assigned” them to score that target. 

 

Naturally, none of this would happen at a major match (Level 2+) because the MD and RM will assign all the range officials. 

Edited February 14, 2019 by DKorn
Spelling

[HCH]

7 hours ago, Lastcat said:

 

Thanks gs,

From what I have read so far, it's 85% to pass as of Feb 2019. Printing is a good idea, I hope that option is available. Were you able to have that option at the USPSA site when you took your finals? I'll be doing the same, dual monitors, pdf file search, and printed rules book and coffee. Good luck with your first match.

 

Dual monitors is a must if you don’t print it. I just took the recert test a couple of months ago and used dual monitors. Once you get a feel for where everything SHOULD be, it gets a lot easier to navigate. 

[Gary Stevens]

When I was still teaching RO courses, I would encourage my students to call me if they started having problems. I would not tell them the answers, but through a series of back and forth I would facilate their finding the correct answer by themselves.

 

Seemed to work well.

[gunshrink]

On 2/14/2019 at 12:44 AM, Lastcat said:

 

Thanks gs,

From what I have read so far, it's 85% to pass as of Feb 2019. Printing is a good idea, I hope that option is available. Were you able to have that option at the USPSA site when you took your finals? I'll be doing the same, dual monitors, pdf file search, and printed rules book and coffee. Good luck with your first match.

Especially the coffee - and yes you can print and use it as however you would like and it looks like printing out  the final scored test is better this year - first time I have done that and will help in study and fine tuning throughout the year. Now if my new gun would just come in...... life would be even better - should be soon though.

[WaJim]

16 minutes ago, gunshrink said:

Especially the coffee - and yes you can print and use it as however you would like and it looks like printing out  the final scored test is better this year - first time I have done that and will help in study and fine tuning throughout the year. Now if my new gun would just come in...... life would be even better - should be soon though.

 

Pay very close attention to how the answer is inputed.

 

An errant space or period between Eg: Appendix D3 and the line where you find the answer will result in a wrong answer.

 

The computer cannot tell the difference between a completely wrong answer and a completely right answer that is spaced incorrectly.

 

The rules on exactly how to enter your answer are at the beginning of the test.

[Lastcat]

22 hours ago, WaJim said:

 

Pay very close attention to how the answer is inputed.

 

An errant space or period between Eg: Appendix D3 and the line where you find the answer will result in a wrong answer.

 

The computer cannot tell the difference between a completely wrong answer and a completely right answer that is spaced incorrectly.

 

The rules on exactly how to enter your answer are at the beginning of the test.

 

Copy that, thanks.

[Lastcat]

Just finished our first day of RO Class. Was a great class and Instructor, Carl Shimdt. He has 26 years exp. and RO/CRO for mostly in Area 1 and 2. But many of the other States. He brought up some great scenarios, why these rules were implemented in the first place. Someone was gaming the rules, so they created, 5.1.7, 5.4.5, etc.... How people got DQ'd. Some AD's. People getting shot in the leg at the draw. We (4 of us from the same city) 18 overall. Really had a good chance to pick his brain. We asked all kinds of questions and he did a really good job getting us the right answers.

 

It was put together by MikeBurgess. Mike you picked the right guy too. Was informative, patient, humorous and knew the rules forward and backwards. The 4 of us from Longview, really found the day at Cabelas, worth every penny, really helps us in so many ways. The 4 of us are just C and D but really dedicated to the sport for the 2 1/2 years we have been involved. This class, and I would suggest anyone that shoots USPSA, taking a class for RO can really up your game.

 

Tomorrow we get to build a stage and run the Timer and Scoring Pad, which we have been doing for the last year or so. Then the test later that evening. Final Exam needs a 85% to pass, 3 Attempts and 33 days to complete. Getting close.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Lastcat

[WaJim]

11 hours ago, Lastcat said:

Just finished our first day of RO Class.

 

Tomorrow we get to build a stage and run the Timer and Scoring Pad, which we have been doing for the last year or so. Then the test later that evening. Final Exam needs a 85% to pass, 3 Attempts and 33 days to complete. Getting close.

 

 

You're going to want to pass the first try. I sat and took my test the day after Carls Class. It took me 281 minutes. One short break where I cooked dinner.

 

The thought of doing the test over......

[Lastcat]

8 hours ago, WaJim said:

 

 

You're going to want to pass the first try. I sat and took my test the day after Carls Class. It took me 281 minutes. One short break where I cooked dinner.

 

The thought of doing the test over......

 

Thanks WaJim. I thought Carl was very thorough and gave some tips about the 50 of 300 random questions, for the Final Exam. We finished the last day at the Range, it' was all good. For sure, the thought of doing this test over, nah, no way, don't want to travel that road. Thanks. Got it printed and will take a few days to work out the correct answers. Fingers crossed.

[waktasz]

I'll let the other guys answer the prematurely pasting issue but you need to check yourself on your FTSA calls.

 

Just because a target has two misses on it doesn't mean it's an FTSA. You say in your first post you saw the guy shoot these two targets, and when you got to score them they had no hits. If he shot them, it's not an FTSA, they are just mikes. 

[Lastcat]

17 hours ago, waktasz said:

I'll let the other guys answer the prematurely pasting issue but you need to check yourself on your FTSA calls.

 

Just because a target has two misses on it doesn't mean it's an FTSA. You say in your first post you saw the guy shoot these two targets, and when you got to score them they had no hits. If he shot them, it's not an FTSA, they are just mikes. 

 

Before you go asking me to check myself, you really need to go back to my original post and read this line: "Let me add a scenario...."  Scenario: (def.) a sequence of events especially when imagined (per Merriam-Webster). These were scenarios to create a situation with multiple possible answers. Which were answered by other members. Check RJH's reply.

 

And, if you read further down I wrote: " Before I would call out 4 mikes and 2 FTSA I would naturally call a Re-Shoot, because I watched the shooter engage said targets. " This is my basic answer. Please re-read the original post for further understanding.

 

[Lastcat]

50 random test questions, out of 300 are used. Final Exam finished and graded.

Did good, passed at 96%. (missed that 100% ).

 

The 2 question I thought were totally written as partial stories, the way it was worded, missing a few important details to make a clear answer, pfttt.... I have a feeling, many of you ran across them as well. Thanks for everyone's help.

 

But, made it through. It's all good.

 

Edited February 19, 2019 by Lastcat

[waktasz]

On 2/18/2019 at 1:27 PM, Lastcat said:

 

Before you go asking me to check myself, you really need to go back to my original post and read this line: "Let me add a scenario...."  Scenario: (def.) a sequence of events especially when imagined (per Merriam-Webster). These were scenarios to create a situation with multiple possible answers. Which were answered by other members. Check RJH's reply.

 

And, if you read further down I wrote: " Before I would call out 4 mikes and 2 FTSA I would naturally call a Re-Shoot, because I watched the shooter engage said targets. " This is my basic answer. Please re-read the original post for further understanding.

 

 

I get what you wrote, but if you watched him shoot them the FTSA should never cross your mind at all. It's either just misses or pre-pasting. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by waktasz

[theWacoKid]

On 2/12/2019 at 3:07 PM, Sarge said:

If you can’t score them and a guy said he pasted them it’s just a reshoot. No need to jump to cheating unless there is suspicion.

 

I agree 100%.  However, how do we communicate suspicion between RO's, stages, matches, etc. in order to identify a pattern?  Problem is when it happens at a single major match, it's a new set of RO's each time so they don't know the history of anything previous and will not be on the lookout for what could be a pattern of behavior.  By the time a 3rd party catches on and notifies the MD or RM it's too late.  I know there has been grumblings about this behavior before and I think it may be time to include reshoots with RO notes into practiscore.  I think it's extremely rare, but has happened and it's wrong.

[Sarge]

2 minutes ago, theWacoKid said:

 

I agree 100%.  However, how do we communicate suspicion between RO's, stages, matches, etc. in order to identify a pattern?  Problem is when it happens at a single major match, it's a new set of RO's each time so they don't know the history of anything previous and will not be on the lookout for what could be a pattern of behavior.  By the time a 3rd party catches on and notifies the MD or RM it's too late.  I know there has been grumblings about this behavior before and I think it may be time to include reshoots with RO notes into practiscore.  I think it's extremely rare, but has happened and it's wrong.

Whenever I have seen it (rare), it seems the squad will mention it. Then CRO calls RM and RM will watch from afar for a few stages to look for a pattern.

[blueorison]

In level 1 matches, we all want to go home/eat before 1:30pm, so we are suddenly are all C/ROs.

 

But in all honesty, you know which prissy shooters you have; identify them, have no one touch their targets, ever, because all they shoot are doubles, and they always hit their targets, before and after the NDs they have to the right and left of their targets, baahahah

 

Otherwise, at a level 2 or if you're a guest at notahomerange match trying to help out, clarify with the home team.