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Vortex Venom cannot zero - not enough elevation


Dazhi
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My Stock 2 cuts work perfectly with FF3.  They also fit perfectly with Venom.  However, with Venom, even turned up all the way on elevation, the gun still shoots 3 inches low at 25 yards.  This is strange because Venom supposedly has more elevation adjustment than FF3,  e.g. 115MOA for FF3 and 130MOA for Venom.

 

Anyone have any suggestions how to fix this problem?  I have tried putting shim made of coke can aluminum sheet  (folded 3 times ~ 0.02'') only underneath the rear part of the dot, but it did not really change anything to my surprise.  Maybe it's not thick enough? To produce 1 degree angle along the length of the red dot base, it's about 0.05'' drop, but I don't need the whole 1 degree though.  Probably just 1/2 of a degree. 

 

I was also told the shim below may help, but if my DIY shim fails, not sure if this one will actually work?

https://www.umtactical.com/store/p5/Delrin_Shim_1.0_Degree_for_Vortex_Venom_%26_Viper%2C_Burris_Fastfire_II%2C_III%2C_Docters_and_Sightmark_Optics.html

 

This is made of plastic material.  Although it's said to be as strong as aluminum, I would prefer something metal.  I have not come up with any aluminum shim stock that has gradual varying thickness.  Looking for some creative ideas.  

Edited by Dazhi
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If the you were able to sight in the FF3 then you should be able to sight in the Ventom.

Try  remounting the ventom  taping down on the sight lightly to seat in on the slide.

There could always be something wrong with the ventom. 

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Just thought of something if your slide is a tight  fit with the FF3.

the Ventom is a little longer . Has the same pattern but slightly different.

so if cut for Ventom you can put a FF3 on no issue but may be not the other way.

This would result in your issue.    can be fixed with a few strokes with a file.

Edited by AHI
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It's cut for both FF3 and Venom.  Both fit perfectly well on the cut, not very tight. 

 

I have 2 Venoms, and a 3rd one coming on the way. 

2 Stock 2s cut.   

Using any Venoms on any of the 2 guns produces the same result. 

 

Although they are identical in slug/set screw hole placements, it's possible that Venom and FF3 have different "horizontal" profile.  One may be pointing slightly upwards (Venom) and the other pointing slightly downward (FF3).  

 

The coke can approach did not work probably due to not enough thickness.  I am going to put 0.05'' thick aluminum shim on the rear and see what happens. 

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38 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

I too run out of elevation without the um shim you linked to. That's what I use, but on a Shadow 2. I had both a FF3 and also Venom and Viper. The Viper I couldn't stand and returned.

Does the plastic shim hold up well?  I bought them but have not received yet.  Really prefer an aluminium shim. 

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24 minutes ago, Dazhi said:

Does the plastic shim hold up well?  I bought them but have not received yet.  Really prefer an aluminium shim. 

 

Grab a cheap set of feeler gauges from the autoparts store. Cut the .003” or .005” one off and make yourself a *steel* rear shim out of it. Drill it for the retaining bosses, even.

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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Grab a cheap set of feeler gauges from the autoparts store. Cut the .003” or .005” one off and make yourself a *steel* rear shim out of it. Drill it for the retaining bosses, even.
 
Does each blade on the feeler gauge have constant thickness?

I think I need varying thickness along each blade... I do have aluminium shim to cut and place on the rear, but probably not a good solution for the dot structural longevity.
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Sent from my LG-h910 using Tapatalk

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3 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Yeah, they’d all be flat; that’s crucial to their actual use.

 

I recall @PrimaryBruce saying they cut the gun with a slope for exactly this reason. At least, I think it was Bruce.

Yes I know Shadow 2 CO ready cut was sloped.  I am asking Vortex to make aluminum shim for us poor souls.  Will see what happens. 

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OP- I've been debating between the FF3 8 moa and a Venom 6moa for steel challenge. Any preference between the two aside from the zeroing issue? The pros to the vortex IMO are the warranty and the brightness adjustment buttons. I'm not a big fan of the burris push and hold button. 

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On 2/11/2019 at 8:37 AM, ezra650 said:

OP- I've been debating between the FF3 8 moa and a Venom 6moa for steel challenge. Any preference between the two aside from the zeroing issue? The pros to the vortex IMO are the warranty and the brightness adjustment buttons. I'm not a big fan of the burris push and hold button. 

 

Burris warranty is amazing.  They send out brand new dot the same day your broken one arrived at theirs. 

I have not sent back a Venom yet so I don't know about the turnaround time for Vortex. 

 

I personally prefer Venom if you shoot a lot of rounds.  FF3 design has its emitter lens sitting outside of the metal enclosure.  My most issues with FF3 are related to the emitter lens flying off.  Venom has an improved design with emitter lens inside the body.  I have not had one flying off so far.  Venom dot is also brighter, though smaller, which I like better.  For competitions, FF3 controls are much easier.  Venom has so many brightness levels, and it takes a lot of presses to get to the level you like under a specific light condition.  

 

Since they have the identical slide cut, you should try both if possible.  

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That's good to hear about Burris warranty. Really the only reason I am interested in the burris is it's 8moa. 

 

Yep I've read some threads about the emitter lens failing frequently. 

 

I don't mind hitting the button several times. I hated the Burris FF2 buttons because if you missed your setting you had to go all the way back through them and the button was difficult to press and hold. With the vortex you can go up or down which I like. If the FF3 is the same as the FF2... I don't want it.

 

Sounds like my decision is getting easier, vortex. 6moa should be fine for steel challenge and I could use the same sight for CO in USPSA if I wanted too. It's also good to hear the vortex is brighter. I also read somewhere that the burris dot has more of an orange color and the vortex is more red.

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