Making this gun flatter

[AdamM]

Most chronos don't work indoors, due to the A/C flickering the lights. Unless you have their lightning kit for the chrono, it won't work.

As mentioned above 115's shoot flatter because you use more powder, equals more gas, which make the comp work better.

Last 8,5 gns of hs-6 under a 125 would be very hot. Probably pushing 180+ pf.

[Jfitz427]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

I'll second the go to a slower powder comment, even if you decide to stay with a 125gr bullet.  I've been shooting Silhouette for the last two seasons and recently changed to Major Pistol.  It was a night and day difference through my two poppel hole/4-chamber, 5-port comp gun.  At the same PF it was noticeably flatter and softer.

 

I just finished building my next Open gun last night.  I have a Trubore barrel with the same custom comp cuts as Jfitx427.  The only difference is I did not tri-top mine.  Eric suggested I try the comp without poppels first to see how I liked it.  That's what I plan to do.  I have some 155 loads using MP powder and some Everglades 124gr major ammo.  If it works out I'll leave it alone.  If not, I'll add a V2 set in the comp itself.

I told my smith to dream up whatever slide cuts and designs he could think of and the tri topping was part of that. I didn’t even think about a tri topped comp. but I think it came out pretty dang cool. As for the comp design, Eric said his design is the flattest he’s ever felt. So will see. I debated on not doing holes, but my smith and I agreed it wouldn’t hurt, it could only make it better. We were gonna put one more in in the comp before the big first chamber starts, but decided to hold off until I see how it shoots. I’m about to start working up a load with the Everglades 124g v2 jhp. Probably gonna stick with hs-6 cause I have a brand new 8lb jug, and I just spend all my money having the gun redone. Maybe after I finish that, or atleast half of it I’ll try something else. Although I’ve always been very happy with how hs-6 shoots. 

[Jfitz427]

1 hour ago, war_material said:

I do need to Chrono it that's for sure.  I didn't bring my chrono since I was at the indoor range I didn't know if the light was sufficient but I will next go-around.  

 

 

Makes sense!  I am definitely feeling the change when I went to the slower gas.  I will definitely continue testing.    When I get through with these 125's I will go to 115's and do AA7.  With that much powder, would a small pistol primer suffice?  I know with this8.5gr HS6 the small pistol primer works pretty well.

I see a lot of people using AA7, and a s#!t load of it at that. Kinda interests me with 115s. What kinda small pistol primers are you using. I’ve even used federal, the softest of soft, and the loads ran fine. They were extremely flat though, and then with the same load going to a harder SPP or even a fed SRP they weren’t flat at all. Going forward I’m gonna stock with SRPs. 

[war_material]

36 minutes ago, Jfitz427 said:

I see a lot of people using AA7, and a s#!t load of it at that. Kinda interests me with 115s. What kinda small pistol primers are you using. I’ve even used federal, the softest of soft, and the loads ran fine. They were extremely flat though, and then with the same load going to a harder SPP or even a fed SRP they weren’t flat at all. Going forward I’m gonna stock with SRPs. 

I use Winchester SP, I just bought another 1K too so I will use these for a while.  I think they were doing pretty good making sure all the powder burned.

1 hour ago, AdamM said:

Most chronos don't work indoors, due to the A/C flickering the lights. Unless you have their lightning kit for the chrono, it won't work.

As mentioned above 115's shoot flatter because you use more powder, equals more gas, which make the comp work better.

Last 8,5 gns of hs-6 under a 125 would be very hot. Probably pushing 180+ pf.

Gotcha, I think I will do a few shots outside real quick when it gets sunny enough here in North Dakota.  It will be -14 when I go out but I will just set it up and shoot a few real fast to get the numbers lol.  The 8.5gr didn't feel all that bad but I will definitely back it down after the suggestions.  I bet it will be super soft at 7.8 or so compared to what I was shooting it at.

[Posvar]

I used to search for soft and flat and thought that was what I needed. No I think in terms of impulse and return to zero and load for that. 

[kneelingatlas]

3 hours ago, war_material said:

I do need to Chrono it that's for sure.  I didn't bring my chrono since I was at the indoor range I didn't know if the light was sufficient but I will next go-around.  

 

 

Makes sense!  I am definitely feeling the change when I went to the slower gas.  I will definitely continue testing.    When I get through with these 125's I will go to 115's and do AA7.  With that much powder, would a small pistol primer suffice?  I know with this8.5gr HS6 the small pistol primer works pretty well.

 

Yes, slower powders and lighter bullets tend to make for lower pressure loads

[Jfitz427]

45 minutes ago, war_material said:

I use Winchester SP, I just bought another 1K too so I will use these for a while.  I think they were doing pretty good making sure all the powder burned.

Gotcha, I think I will do a few shots outside real quick when it gets sunny enough here in North Dakota.  It will be -14 when I go out but I will just set it up and shoot a few real fast to get the numbers lol.  The 8.5gr didn't feel all that bad but I will definitely back it down after the suggestions.  I bet it will be super soft at 7.8 or so compared to what I was shooting it at.

If you didn’t see any significant primer flattening, then it should be fine. But no need to go up to 185pf, unless that’s load that feels and tracks best for you. So you were using win SPP with 8.5 hs-6 wirh a blue bullet? I have pictures of my primers that I’ll find her in a minute, with 125g blue bullet, and 7.5g hs-6. They showed just a little bit of flattening. Not really much at all. I imagine if I went up to 8.5 in my weather/altitude etc, they would have been very flat. 

 

The pic below of the gold primers  is Winchester spp after firing, load was around 7.5g hs-6 125g blue bullet, approx 45-50 degrees out, and around sea level. 

 

The first pic of the silver primers, the super flat ones are the same exact load, same day same conditions but with fed SPP. They’re way to soft. 

 

And the last pics is also the same day, same exact load etc but with fed SRP. These look the best imo. No flattening or any signs of pressure. I’m gonna try to stick with these going forward. 

[war_material]

40 minutes ago, Jfitz427 said:

If you didn’t see any significant primer flattening, then it should be fine. But no need to go up to 185pf, unless that’s load that feels and tracks best for you. So you were using win SPP with 8.5 hs-6 wirh a blue bullet? I have pictures of my primers that I’ll find her in a minute, with 125g blue bullet, and 7.5g hs-6. They showed just a little bit of flattening. Not really much at all. I imagine if I went up to 8.5 in my weather/altitude etc, they would have been very flat. 

 

The pic below of the gold primers  is Winchester spp after firing, load was around 7.5g hs-6 125g blue bullet, approx 45-50 degrees out, and around sea level. 

 

The first pic of the silver primers, the super flat ones are the same exact load, same day same conditions but with fed SPP. They’re way to soft. 

 

And the last pics is also the same day, same exact load etc but with fed SRP. These look the best imo. No flattening or any signs of pressure. I’m gonna try to stick with these going forward. 

 

I see you are running 9mm and I am running 38 sc.  This is probably why I am not getting as much pressure on my primers.  I did a search all around and found 8.5 to be just about right for 38sc. I still definitely need to chrono though.  THanks for sharing the info!

[Jfitz427]

52 minutes ago, war_material said:

 

I see you are running 9mm and I am running 38 sc.  This is probably why I am not getting as much pressure on my primers.  I did a search all around and found 8.5 to be just about right for 38sc. I still definitely need to chrono though.  THanks for sharing the info!

Ohh, yes, 38sc changes things. I assumed you were running 9 major. So ya totally different, 8.5 is probably a perfectly normal load for 38sc. I don’t know anything about reloading for that. 

[zzt]

3 hours ago, Jfitz427 said:

I told my smith to dream up whatever slide cuts and designs he could think of and the tri topping was part of that. I didn’t even think about a tri topped comp. but I think it came out pretty dang cool. As for the comp design, Eric said his design is the flattest he’s ever felt. So will see. I debated on not doing holes, but my smith and I agreed it wouldn’t hurt, it could only make it better. We were gonna put one more in in the comp before the big first chamber starts, but decided to hold off until I see how it shoots. I’m about to start working up a load with the Everglades 124g v2 jhp. Probably gonna stick with hs-6 cause I have a brand new 8lb jug, and I just spend all my money having the gun redone. Maybe after I finish that, or atleast half of it I’ll try something else. Although I’ve always been very happy with how hs-6 shoots. 

 

I just got back from the range.  I shot three loads.  The first was an Everglades 124 minor load.  It didn't cycle the gun.  The second was Everglades new 124gr major ammo.  That was harsh and not flat.  The third was my handload of 10.0gr Major Pistol under a 115 HAP.  Much better, softer and flatter, but still not as flat as my other Open gun with two 3/16" poppels.  It does track straight up and down though.

 

I forgot my recoil springs.  I had a 9 in there, because that's what I run in my other Open guns.  At 173PF for the Everglades, the brass barely dribbled out.  Same for my handload.  So a lighter spring is called for, and maybe loosening up the slide to frame fit a bit.  I want to try a lighter spring and maybe a hotter load first before I add poppels.  I also want to chrono so I have a baseline before adding poppels.  I always wanted to know how many fps they bled off.

 

BTW, I don't think I'd go for a third 3/16" poppel.

[Jfitz427]

2 hours ago, zzt said:

 

I just got back from the range.  I shot three loads.  The first was an Everglades 124 minor load.  It didn't cycle the gun.  The second was Everglades new 124gr major ammo.  That was harsh and not flat.  The third was my handload of 10.0gr Major Pistol under a 115 HAP.  Much better, softer and flatter, but still not as flat as my other Open gun with two 3/16" poppels.  It does track straight up and down though.

 

I forgot my recoil springs.  I had a 9 in there, because that's what I run in my other Open guns.  At 173PF for the Everglades, the brass barely dribbled out.  Same for my handload.  So a lighter spring is called for, and maybe loosening up the slide to frame fit a bit.  I want to try a lighter spring and maybe a hotter load first before I add poppels.  I also want to chrono so I have a baseline before adding poppels.  I always wanted to know how many fps they bled off.

 

BTW, I don't think I'd go for a third 3/16" poppel.

I was actually gonna buy some of the Everglades 9 major ammo. Had to take my press down while we sold our house so I couldn’t load any. But decided not to buy any of it. Glad I didn’t, sounds harsh. Luckily we got an offer on the house yesterday, so I set my press back up and loaded up some 124 blues with 7.8g hs -6. 7.4 was around 155pf when shooting 9 out of my 38 barrel before sending it to the smith, so I’m hoping 7.8 will be 168-170ish.  

 

My smith said to use a 9lb spring, so I have that plus a 7. So will see what works best. As for a for a 3rd hole, if I did one in the comp I’d definitely go bigger then a 3/16th. Honestly, I think I could do that one myself, a hole in the comp. it’s not like drilling holes in the barrel. My father in law has a CNC machine, so depending on how it shoots with the current setup, if I feel I need more I’ll drill that one myself. As for the FPS loss with holes, I think I’ve read some posts from guys who did that, one guy lost 40 FPS from two holes, another said about 25fps per hole.

 

how do you like major pistol powder? Lot of people have been recommending it. After I finish up my 8lbs of hs-6 I may try some new powders. Unless I just really like how hs-6 feels in this “new” gun. Ive always really likes hs-6, but will see. I’m pissed, fedex tried to deliver my gun and I wasn’t home, so I have to wait until tomorrow to pick it up at the hub. I think after work I’m gonna go grab it and then go straight to the range. 

[zzt]

 

I would absolutely not put a third poppel larger than 3/16" in.  I don't think it will fit, because you have to drill it at a 20 degree or so forward angle.  Plus it would rob so much gas from the comp it wouldn't work as well.

 

My current main Open gun has two 3/16" poppels in the barrel, just like yours.  It also wears a 4-chamber, 5-port comp.  The two poppels robbed the comp of so much gas it was not 'worked' as well as it should have been.  That was with WAC, Silhouette and HS-6.  When I went with Major Pistol, the difference was night and day.  Flatter and softer.  However, the comp is still not being fully worked, even with 10.+gr Major Pistol and a 115.

 

Major Pistol is my new go to powder.  I'm going to sell the 12 lbs of 3N38 I have.  If it doesn't sell locally, I'll use it up for minor Steel Open.

Edited February 6, 2019 by zzt

[Dranoel]

On 2/2/2019 at 10:44 AM, warmaterial said:

Would I have a flatter gun with the same load? 

 

Pull the other one.  

[Jfitz427]

45 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

I would absolutely not put a third poppel larger than 3/16" in.  I don't think it will fit, because you have to drill it at a 20 degree or so forward angle.  Plus it would rob so much gas from the comp it wouldn't work as well.

 

My current main Open gun has two 3/16" poppels in the barrel, just like yours.  It also wears a 4-chamber, 5-port comp.  The two poppels robbed the comp of so much gas it was not 'worked' as well as it should have been.  That was with WAC, Silhouette and HS-6.  When I went with Major Pistol, the difference was night and day.  Flatter and softer.  However, the comp is still not being fully worked, even with 10.+gr Major Pistol and a 115.

 

Major Pistol is my new go to powder.  I'm going to sell the 12 lbs of 3N38 I have.  If it doesn't sell locally, I'll use it up for minor Steel Open.

Ohh you were saying don’t put a 3rd hole. Will see. I’m probably not even a good enough shooter to notice. I’m sure it’ll shoot pretty flat with the 2 holes and the comp. before as a 38 it was pretty flat by my standards, tracked well. I came from a Glock, so when I first shot my trubor I was like holy s#!t, this is night and day. I thought my Glock shot well, and flat. After going to the trubor the Glock felt like a hand grenade going off. So I’ll most likely leave it as is. I’m thinking this comp with just 3 ports/chambers will do well with the two holes. 

[tanfoglio1911]

14 hours ago, Jfitz427 said:

Here’s how my trubor came out. Really looks like a totally different gun. I haven’t shot it yet, hopefully either Wednesday or Thursday. I’ll let you know how it shoots with the holes in the barrel and the lighter slide. 

 

 

How much these kind of job cost you and who is your gunsmith? Thanks.

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by tanfoglio1911

[echotango]

 

4 hours ago, Jfitz427 said:

I was actually gonna buy some of the Everglades 9 major ammo. Had to take my press down while we sold our house so I couldn’t load any. But decided not to buy any of it. Glad I didn’t, sounds harsh. Luckily we got an offer on the house yesterday, so I set my press back up and loaded up some 124 blues with 7.8g hs -6. 7.4 was around 155pf when shooting 9 out of my 38 barrel before sending it to the smith, so I’m hoping 7.8 will be 168-170ish.  

 

My smith said to use a 9lb spring, so I have that plus a 7. So will see what works best. As for a for a 3rd hole, if I did one in the comp I’d definitely go bigger then a 3/16th. Honestly, I think I could do that one myself, a hole in the comp. it’s not like drilling holes in the barrel. My father in law has a CNC machine, so depending on how it shoots with the current setup, if I feel I need more I’ll drill that one myself. As for the FPS loss with holes, I think I’ve read some posts from guys who did that, one guy lost 40 FPS from two holes, another said about 25fps per hole.

 

how do you like major pistol powder? Lot of people have been recommending it. After I finish up my 8lbs of hs-6 I may try some new powders. Unless I just really like how hs-6 feels in this “new” gun. Ive always really likes hs-6, but will see. I’m pissed, fedex tried to deliver my gun and I wasn’t home, so I have to wait until tomorrow to pick it up at the hub. I think after work I’m gonna go grab it and then go straight to the range. 

I have 3x 3/16" holes with a CFD 2 port comp and it shoots fast and flat. Don't care about soft. I have tried aa7 and hs6 and keep going back to WAC.  Def test as they all feel different to everyone. 

 

Don't drill it yourself unless you know what your are doing. If it is going thru your comp, it is going thru your barrel. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by echotango

[Jfitz427]

40 minutes ago, echotango said:

 

I have 3x 3/16" holes with a CFD 2 port comp and it shoots fast and flat. Don't care about soft. I have tried aa7 and hs6 and keep going back to WAC.  Def test as they all feel different to everyone. 

 

Don't drill it yourself unless you know what your are doing. If it is going thru your comp, it is going thru your barrel. 

Ya I’m not that worried about the load being soft like I would with my limited gun. What I want is it to shoot flat, and the dot to track consistently. I’ve always felt my past loads with hs-6 hate been good, so I’m gonna finish up the 8lbs I got, unless it really just doesn’t shoot well with this new setup which i doubt. But when I finish this I  might buy a few different powders and try out some new loads. 

[Absocold]

nm, new info was posted while I was typing.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Absocold

[war_material]

19 hours ago, Jfitz427 said:

Ya I’m not that worried about the load being soft like I would with my limited gun. What I want is it to shoot flat, and the dot to track consistently. I’ve always felt my past loads with hs-6 hate been good, so I’m gonna finish up the 8lbs I got, unless it really just doesn’t shoot well with this new setup which i doubt. But when I finish this I  might buy a few different powders and try out some new loads. 

Man that's great to hear you got to shoot that bad boy!  Yeah I am gonna go for how I like the dot to move and so far between the WAC and HS6, I like the HS6 better.  But I will definitely try the AA7 and 115 Blue bullets when my bullets run out.