New 10.2.1 and Non-Existence

[NickBlasta]

23 minutes ago, regor said:

 

Is 2.2.3.4 changed for 2019? I don't know why hooking your foot under a wall in the way you did would be legal in the first place unless it is a wall that you are allowed to shoot under. Walls extend to the ground even if the physical prop does not; if you can't shoot under it because it is "solid", why should you be able to use that opening as support? If that opening exists when you aren't trying to shoot through it then we have an inconsistent application of existence. If it is closed at all times then that's definitely not a legal move... 

 

The rule used to permit you to use anything inside the shooting area for support. You could grip the snow fence and hang onto it, whatever the prop looked like it was game.

 

Now it it muddied by the fact that only an edge is usable for support. The edges are narrow sides, a rectangle should have four. However, do the bottom and top edges technically exist since they go to the ground or are infinitely high?

[N3WWN]

2 hours ago, regor said:

 

Is 2.2.3.4 changed for 2019? I don't know why hooking your foot under a wall in the way you did would be legal in the first place unless it is a wall that you are allowed to shoot under. Walls extend to the ground even if the physical prop does not; if you can't shoot under it because it is "solid", why should you be able to use that opening as support? If that opening exists when you aren't trying to shoot through it then we have an inconsistent application of existence. If it is closed at all times then that's definitely not a legal move... 

 

Yes - 2.2.3.4 didn't exist before the 2019 rules.  It's the "solid plane" wording that really changed.  As @NickBlasta said in his response, edges are now the only thing you can use for support.  

 

Barriers don't extend to infinity laterally, so there's no confusion that you could still hold onto the side of the wall for support or hook your foot around the far side of the wall. 

 

Where things get iffy is that barriers that don't touch the ground, but are considered to extend from "ground to infinity"  and are now also specified as a "solid plane".  This could mean that the construction of the barrier does not come into play at all when it comes to how you can or cannot gain support since hooking the foot under or sticking your fingers through the snow fence would be breaking the plane of the barrier.

 

I suppose without an applicable penalty entry in chapter 10, it doesn't matter.   But, here again, things are open to interpretation; 10.2.1 may apply (or may not), how about 10.6 ("Unsportsmanlike Conduct")?  Can't be a Forbidden Action unless it's a safety issue, so that's not a clear one.

[cas]

This thread is wonderful. A shining example of what's wrong with the sport. 

[WaJim]

On 1/12/2019 at 3:49 PM, cas said:

This thread is wonderful. A shining example of what's wrong with the sport. 

 

Actually its whats right with the sport.

 

Now that we have the GREEN rule book a conversation on a site like BE that is frequented by the people from USPSA that write/make the rules will give them feedback on whats really happening at Matches since the rule changes. This in turn will hopefully let them make subtle changes to the GREEN book wording that will clarify issues.

 

Or so I was told.