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2019 Rules are released...


ChuckS

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4 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Wonder how much it would cost to make our own books? Anybody with a printer can roll their own 8.5*11 in a 3 ring binder but it might not be too terrible to have a professional outfit make something more range bag friendly, particularly if there were 50 or more people interested.   

Idk,  but it would be nice is uspsa would take a preorder. I want to say there might be some intrest, but people don't read the rules  now. I  bet 5-10 bucks would  cover it though, assuming enough people wanted one. However you would probably have to get uspsa's approval cause of copyright and they would probably want a cut Haha 

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The definition of 'Striker Fired' could cause some heartburn.   There already striker guns that don't further cock the striker with the trigger pull, which would throw them into 'single action', especially with aftermarket parts (eg: XD, PPQ, P320, etc).

 

Quote

8.1.5.3 “Striker Fired” means activation of the trigger, once the chamber
of the firearm is loaded, finishes cocking the striker spring and then
causes the striker to fall.

 

 

The Changelog is way better than nothing, but a redline version would be more useful and make comparisons with the old rules easier.

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2 hours ago, IVC said:

A quick question on 6.2.5.1

 

Say, a bonafide PCC guy declares "Limited" (a "handgun Division") and then clearly fails to satisfy requirements for the division. Rule 6.2.5.1 states that he will be placed into "Open Division if available" (which almost always is). So, does the PCC guy get to shoot for score in Open division (while the PCC course and shooting rules are still in effect since those are based on "handgun vs. PCC," not on the Division that is used for scoring)?

 

In the old rules, moving shooters to Open was a punitive action - a Production shooter wouldn't be placed in Limited if he reloaded from the front pocket or had an extra round in the magazine. The new rules seem to allow a PCC guy to game it and choose whether to shoot against Open shooters...

6.2.5.1

However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other

requirements of a declared handgun Division during a course of

fire, the competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available,

otherwise the competitor will shoot the match for no score. If a

competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements for

PCC or Open Division during the course of fire, he will shoot for no

score.

Looks like it clearly states in that case the PCC shooter shoots for no score.  PCC guy delcares LTD, gets "bumped" to Open, but doesnt satisfy Open req, gets bumped to No Score.  

Edited by Patrick Scott
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Already found one discrepancy. 

 

5.1.12 states bump stocks are prohibited in PCC. 10.5.18 says they are not prohibited, provided a competitor doesn’t use that function in a match. 

 

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Already found one discrepancy. 
 
5.1.12 states bump stocks are prohibited in PCC. 10.5.18 says they are not prohibited, provided a competitor doesn’t use that function in a match. 
 
The ATF has reclassified bump stocks as machine guns. We all have less than 90 days left to destroy them or turn them in anyway.
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1 hour ago, Patrick Scott said:

Looks like it clearly states in that case the PCC shooter shoots for no score.  PCC guy delcares LTD, gets "bumped" to Open, but doesnt satisfy Open req, gets bumped to No Score.  

 

The wording says that it must satisfy "Open or PCC," but I am nitpicking here - I just wish that the rule simply said that "rifle guys get bumped to PCC and handgun guys get bumped to Open." There might be other "rifle divisions" in the future so it would be a good idea to create a simple rule that separates "top rifle" from the "top handgun" divisions.

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2 hours ago, Darqusoull13 said:

Considering he could never start a loaded and holstered stage, I think you're reading too much into this. 

 

I'm definitely reading too much into it, just something that seems to be strangely worded when it could be a simple rule. Since with PCC there is no more a single top division, they might have as well changed the wording to reflect it. 

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2 hours ago, dvc4you said:

Check 9.9.3. “Activated targets to be activated prior to firing the last shot”

 

Interesting one, but it's mostly taken care of by declaring wall supports to be "non-existent" in rule 2.2.3.5.

 

This prevents the type of gaming where a shooter would run in front of a barricade/wall, step on the support that is slightly protruding on the other side, engage a moving target before activation (standing in front is the only way the target is visible before activation), finish the course of fire, then activate the target such that there would be no penalty under 9.9.3, which is now a "closed loophole" (2.1.8.5. specifically allows shooting targets that are not properly hidden and it remains in effect). 

 

The new 2.2.3.5 also brings up an interesting follow-up in 9.1.7, where one can now shoot through those "non-existent" supports. It's added for consistency, but I can't wait to see how this one gets abused...

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On 1/2/2019 at 7:24 AM, Intel6 said:

 

Nope,  mine is on a BOSS, just need to move the screws.

 

Dropped & Offset BOSS doesn't appear to actually 'drop' the pistol enough for the new allowances... 🤣

 

Looks like I can drill an extra hole to drop it a bit more.

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On 1/2/2019 at 11:16 AM, shred said:
The definition of 'Striker Fired' could cause some heartburn.   There already striker guns that don't further cock the striker with the trigger pull, which would throw them into 'single action', especially with aftermarket parts (eg: XD, PPQ, P320, etc).
 
Quote
8.1.5.3 “Striker Fired” means activation of the trigger, once the chamber
of the firearm is loaded, finishes cocking the striker spring and then
causes the striker to fall.
 

 

Would have been better off simply defining as "semi automatic handguns without internal or external hammers" or something like that

Edited by broadside72
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The single stack holder change I like for competition but there is something nostalgic/classic about a 1911 riding high on the hip
I won't miss the old holster position, but there's not really a lot left differentiating Single Stack from L10.
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22 hours ago, PatJones said:
On 1/5/2019 at 1:05 PM, broadside72 said:
The single stack holder change I like for competition but there is something nostalgic/classic about a 1911 riding high on the hip

I won't miss the old holster position, but there's not really a lot left differentiating Single Stack from L10.

 

Sure there is, the fact people still shoot single stack:)  I can't believe L10 is still a division.

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In CA possession is (still) allowed due to the last minute injunction against the law that was supposed to outlaw the mere possession of the standard magazines. However, acquisition is illegal and magazines have to be "pre-ban." This means that the magazines must have been possessed prior to 2001. You can see all sorts of loopholes here, which is why the legislators tried to outlaw the possession, but the loopholes are not legal and heavily rely on the statute of limitations and burden of proof. Not a fun position to be in. 

 

Indeed, the local clubs were sending out messages in 2017 that everyone would not only have to shoot ten rounds maximum, but the magazines themselves would have to be blocked. 

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Regarding 5.2.5.2, 

 

Penalty for holster distance violation  

In short(can’t copy+paste)

“Any competitor who shoots a course of fire while out of compliance will receive a zero score for that course of fire...the ro must measure distances at that time...penalties will not be applied retroactive to previously completed stages and will be based solely on measurements taken on a particular stage”

 

So if at the end of a course of fire an RO notices your holster distance is bad is the stage zero? Otherwise when would this come into effect?

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Regarding 5.2.5.2, 
 
Penalty for holster distance violation  
In short(can’t copy+paste)
“Any competitor who shoots a course of fire while out of compliance will receive a zero score for that course of fire...the ro must measure distances at that time...penalties will not be applied retroactive to previously completed stages and will be based solely on measurements taken on a particular stage”
 
So if at the end of a course of fire an RO notices your holster distance is bad is the stage zero? Otherwise when would this come into effect?
Correct. If they notice it before the course of fire, you will simply be asked to correct it.

The overlay is wider than the 2 inches we've always been held to, so I can't imagine this coming up very often.
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On 1/2/2019 at 4:20 PM, IVC said:

 

Interesting one, but it's mostly taken care of by declaring wall supports to be "non-existent" in rule 2.2.3.5.

 

This prevents the type of gaming where a shooter would run in front of a barricade/wall, step on the support that is slightly protruding on the other side, engage a moving target before activation (standing in front is the only way the target is visible before activation), finish the course of fire, then activate the target such that there would be no penalty under 9.9.3, which is now a "closed loophole" (2.1.8.5. specifically allows shooting targets that are not properly hidden and it remains in effect). 

 

The new 2.2.3.5 also brings up an interesting follow-up in 9.1.7, where one can now shoot through those "non-existent" supports. It's added for consistency, but I can't wait to see how this one gets abused...

 

How about the situation where there is a swinger that is the only target intended to be shot through a port/door and opening the port/door activates the swinger... BUT the swinger is visible prior to activation from elsewhere in the CoF (intentional or not - that's not the debate), so the shooter decides not to use the port and therefore the swinger is not activated?

 

2.1.8.5 ("Appearing scoring targets should be designed and constructed to be obscured to the competitor (during the course of fire) prior to activation. If the entire target is not obscured, it may be shot at any time during the course of fire, whether activated or not.") allows the behavior above, but then 9.9.3 ("Moving scoring targets will always incur failure to shoot at and miss penalties if a competitor fails to activate the mechanism which initiates the target movement before the last shot is fired in a course of fire.") directly contradicts 2.1.8.5 and states that you will always get FTSA and miss penalties if a moving target is not activated during the CoF.

 

2.1.8.5.1 permits Level 1 matches to force 9.9.3 if stated in the WSB, but what if the WSB does not specify that activation is necessary?

 

 

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No contradiction,,, shoot the stationary target THEN open the port to activate it before firing your last shot.
In real world shouldnt be that big of an issue. Easy to fix with a couple no shoots. Or just a bit of thought into stage design... 

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