How long is too long for 2011?

[motosapiens]

I know lots of people load long for 2011's, but is there anything other than chamber length and magazine length to worry about?

 

I've got a 2011 with a feed ramp that doesn't extend very far vertically compared to some barrels (see pic), so if something gets catty-wumpus in the magazine, it's easy for a round to hit underneath the ramped portion. Even at 1.19" this happens once or twice every 1000 rounds or so. Should I go longer? anyone else run into this?

[HoMiE]

Bust out the dremel and take it down a little bit lower or just break the edge. 

[Rnlinebacker]

I know lots of people load long for 2011's, but is there anything other than chamber length and magazine length to worry about?

 

I've got a 2011 with a feed ramp that doesn't extend very far vertically compared to some barrels (see pic), so if something gets catty-wumpus in the magazine, it's easy for a round to hit underneath the ramped portion. Even at 1.19" this happens once or twice every 1000 rounds or so. Should I go longer? anyone else run into this?

I load to 1.225. your mags should be capable of holding 10mm Kenneth rounds with go out to 1.260

 

Going longer will def help to decrease crashing of rounds into the feed ramp. Also, magazine feed lips should be tuned properly to have the rings angled upwards on almost a 45 degree angle

 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[Furrly]

What type of Mags do you have.. You might have to tune the mags 

[motosapiens]

1 minute ago, Furrly said:

What type of Mags do you have.. You might have to tune the mags 

that was where i started, and it helped. mags are sti and mbx. they have been tuned and adjusted to recommended feed lip dimensions. The mbx mags run a bit better, but still have an occasional hiccup.

[Furrly]

What exactly is happening 

[motosapiens]

once every several hundred rounds or so, a round is nose-diving and hitting just below the feed ramp. at 1.16, those rounds would often require removing the magazine and trying again. at 1.19, it seems like usually re-racking fixes it.

 

It also seems to be worse in below freezing weather, which makes sense because everything has a little more friction in the cold.

 

Based on rnlinebacker's post, I may check to make sure 1.21-1.22 will fit in the chamber and then load a few hundred rounds and see. If i can fix it without getting the barrel modified, that would be my first choice.

[Furrly]

Mark your barrel with an eraseble sharpie, the rounds should be hitting anywhere from half way up the feed ramp or higher.. If they are its not your barrel. Possibly your spring and followers may be worn out..

I load 1.185 with coated bullets on all 3 of my 2011 and they run with out a hitch.. Mbx, Sti gen 1and 2 mags.. 

What type of 2011 is it 

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by Furrly

[mikedio]

I load to 1.200" for Montana Gold  or Hornady HAP bullets.  I have gone as far 1.215".  Not a feeding problem with either length in 10 different SVI mags for 4 different SVI pistols.

 

If you are loading longer and the nose diving rounds still occur on occasion, you might want to install a new mag spring or put a slight bend in the top coil.

 

Good luck.  Mike

[jcc7x7]

1. Make sure feed ramp is not sticking out into the mag opening.

2. load as long as you can. 

              If it's a 40 1.200 or longer for 180's and 1.180-1.200 for 200grs

 

My guns run once I got the feed ramp out of the mag opening and kept newish recoil springs in them.

I know guys say they last for ever.  I've got a couple of older open guns I could run with worn out 6lb springs but they are the exception.

Most of the newer guns run "better" with newer springs. I like to change them every couple of boxes of bullets 6-8,000 rounds.

Just seem to have no problems when I do that.

 

[motosapiens]

13 hours ago, Furrly said:

Mark your barrel with an eraseble sharpie, the rounds should be hitting anywhere from half way up the feed ramp or higher..

 

more than 99% of rounds are hitting half-way up the feed ramp. the mark is clearly visible when i clean the gun. the problem comes with the 1 round out of 500 or so that decides not to because of intermittent friction in the magazine, or bad luck, or whatever. I need it to run 100%, not just 99.8%.

[Bkreutz]

How often do you clean your mags, I mean really clean them, not just running a brush through them. I find that when I neglect to clean them on a regular basis, I will start to get jams. If I clean them regularly, I'm at 100%. I clean them by spraying a paper towel with silicone spray and then pushing that through the mag body until it comes out clean. I've started to do this before every match and have not had a jam since then. I used to go a couple of practice sessions and then shoot a match. The jams usually happened on the last stage, even though I was cleaning the mags out with a brush between stages. I'm figuring the carbon buildup was dragging on the follower/spring/rounds, or a combination of the three. Good luck with your diagnosis.

 

Edit: I use MBX mags, couldn't get the STI ones to work reliably. BTW, I'm in the middle of packing up the house to sell and will soon be a neighbor, gonna get out of this crazy state.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Bkreutz

[motosapiens]

thanks for the suggestions all. it sounds like I'm on the right track. I've been pretty fastidious with magazines, taking them apart and cleaning them thoroughly after every match.

 

welcome to idaho Bkreutz. if you are anywhere in the southwest, you will like the shooting here. Just promise not to vote democrat. 

[zzt]

There is no rule that 'tuning' a mag to specifications will make it run right.  Anyone who has tuned mags for High Standards understands that.  It sounds like you are having intermittent problems with only one of your mags.  It may be more, but at a 1 out of 500 failure rate, I doubt it.  Identify the mag and rework the feed lips.  I may be that opening the front lips a tad solves it, or opening both.  I have one mag where tuning to minimum specifications results in just what you describe, but more often.  Opening up to max or beyond cured the problem 100%.

 

All of my mags will feed ammo loaded from 1.126" to 1.180" in both of my 2011.  BTW, another thing you can check is split cases.  There have been a couple of instances where a loaded round passed the chamber checker, but hung up on feeding.  In every instance it was a slit in the case.  The lack of tension allowed set back when the bullet hit the ramp.

Edited December 30, 2018 by zzt

[motosapiens]

it is multiple mags, but one *seems* to be worse. opening up the feed lips a little further is worth trying. thanks for the suggestion.

 

it is a frustrating problem to diagnose because it happens so rarely, but it's still often enough to make it likely to happen once in a major match.... which is too often.

[IsaacB]

I don't know if you fixed this or not, but I had a 1911 and a CZ TS do this and the solution was to gently round over the edge of the breachface where the slide grabs the next bullet from the mag.

 

I had where it was nudging the next bullet of the magazine into the front of the magazine and that caused it to drag into the bottom of the feedramp.

[TimBoettcher]

On 12/28/2018 at 6:11 PM, motosapiens said:

once every several hundred rounds or so, a round is nose-diving and hitting just below the feed ramp. at 1.16, those rounds would often require removing the magazine and trying again. at 1.19, it seems like usually re-racking fixes it.

 

It also seems to be worse in below freezing weather, which makes sense because everything has a little more friction in the cold.

 

Based on rnlinebacker's post, I may check to make sure 1.21-1.22 will fit in the chamber and then load a few hundred rounds and see. If i can fix it without getting the barrel modified, that would be my first choice.

 

This may be of some help..

 

 

[nutzach]

I would check those mag lips first.  Maybe open them up a touch.  I run 1.195 180gr Blue Bullets with an Atlas.

[motosapiens]

On 2/5/2019 at 10:58 AM, IsaacB said:

I don't know if you fixed this or not, but I had a 1911 and a CZ TS do this and the solution was to gently round over the edge of the breachface where the slide grabs the next bullet from the mag.

 

I had where it was nudging the next bullet of the magazine into the front of the magazine and that caused it to drag into the bottom of the feedramp.

 

we ended up sending the guns back to the builder, and that was exactly his conclusion. They are arriving back today, and hopefully all will be well. very educational thread.

 

fwiw, we also discovered that the dawson posi-lock mag catch extends further forward into the slot in the magazine than on our other guns. It was occasionally hanging up the follower, and if we loaded to 1.20 or longer, the nose of the bullet could actually hit the mag catch and cause an inadvertent release. It was made worse because daily dryfire reloads caused the mag catch to mushroom over a little bit on the edge. a little gentle work with a small file (making it look more like the mag catch on my Edge, when viewed from below through an empty mag tube) seems to have solved that problem pretty easily.

[beta1759]

Polish the feedramp and tune the magazines.

[CHA-LEE]

If the majority of the rounds are hitting the middle and higher up on the freed ramp then the OAL of the ammo is correct. Random nose dive jams with the correct OAL ammo is usually caused by an inconsistent belly on the brass leading to an inconsistent registration of the round at the top of the feed lips. Or incorrect feed lip width. Tell us more about your reloading process. Do you push through size or roll size the brass before loading it? Trying to use a "U-Die" to eliminate the belly at the bottom of the brass?

 

I exclusively use MBX magazines and religiously keep the feed lip width within a .382" - .384" spec on my 40 cal mags. This spec is most important at the front edge of the feed lips. I also push through size or roll size all of my brass before reloading it which fully eliminates any belly at the bottom that a normal resizing die within a press would miss. When the feed lips are within spec, and I fill the magazine with ammo that has been sized before hand, the side wall of the top case will fully engage both sides of the feed lips from front to back. The angle of the case matches the angle of the feed lips exactly when looking at it from the side. More importantly, the second, third and forth rounds just under the first round at the top are fully and evenly touching the under side of the round above it. If the tips of the bullets are fanning out with only the bases of the cases touching then you are likely battling a case belly issue, or a feed lip width issue.

[motosapiens]

i did get a push-through die (bulge-buster) during my diagnostic process. didn't make a difference, but almost all my ammo case-gauges now, so I'll keep using it for match ammo especially.

 

At any rate, hopefully the problem has been found and fixed as detailed a few posts above.

Edited February 13, 2019 by motosapiens