9mm reloading problems

[IHAVEGAS]

15 minutes ago, redpillregret said:

 

I’ve been eyeballing the Redding Comp die since even before I got fed up with this issue. I suppose I’ll make a cart on Brownells and wait for the next sale.
 

 

 

I seem to get more consistent oal with that die after taking the spring out. I talked it over with Redding and they suggested giving that a try. Not needed if you do not run bare lead or coated bullets I suspect. 

[Sarge]

5 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

I seem to get more consistent oal with that die after taking the spring out. I talked it over with Redding and they suggested giving that a try. Not needed if you do not run bare lead or coated bullets I suspect. 

I tried the competition die years ago and found it was no more consistent and also was advised to remove spring. I just sold it and bought a Redding Pro seater die. It cost about $30. It has very fine thread adjustment which is all I wanted in the first place. I had no need for micrometer 

[MemphisMechanic]

Yup. Sarge and GAS backed me up on it; the only thing the Redding comp die does well is rapidly switch between different bullets and/or OALs when loading the same caliber.

 

In my case? Dial it in to 42, then back out to 77, and I can load the two bullets I’m currently loading without getting out a wrench or even checking it with a caliper.

 

You won’t really find straighter bullets or less OAL variation. 

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[Sarge]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/720594/redding-pro-series-seater-die

[redpillregret]

Interesting on the comp die. On rifles, the Redding or the Forster dies load straighter bullets with less runout. I had assumed it crossed over here to 9mm.


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[redpillregret]

Thanks for all the help guys. I’m going to order the Lee die tomorrow I believe.


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[IDescribe]

10 hours ago, redpillregret said:

Interesting on the comp die. On rifles, the Redding or the Forster dies load straighter bullets with less runout. I had assumed it crossed over here to 9mm.
 

 

They do on pistol, as well.  But the Comp seating die is about the micrometer adjustment.  The difference between the Redding Pro and the Redding Competition Pro is the micrometer.  Has nothing to do with the actual seating.

 

[Jim Watson]

I own a 9mm EGW "U" die but use it only for 115 - 124 gr to prevent setback. 

Dillon sizing die is adequate for heavier/longer bullets. 

I use a Lee CFC die. Most rounds don't hit the sizing ring enough to make a mark. Of those that do, most are burnished low where the sizing die mouth radius left the case oversized. Some but not many are rubbed where the bullet base expanded the case near the middle. 

 

Gauge failures 1-2% nearly always plunk and shoot in practice. The last one that did not had a crack that had slipped through.

 

i have a Hornady sleeve type seater with micrometer spindle. 

It seats straight, but I have not turned the spindle recently. I hit on a setting that gives functional ammo with a variety of bullets. Not the same OAL because of different nose shapes, but they all feed, from 115 HAP to 147 Xtreme. 

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Jim Watson

[tacomandood]

 
They do on pistol, as well.  But the Comp seating die is about the micrometer adjustment.  The difference between the Redding Pro and the Redding Competition Pro is the micrometer.  Has nothing to do with the actual seating.

 

I thought the Redding Competition die had the spring loaded seating stem right? Seems a few people on this thread just take the spring out eventually, but isn’t it supposed to help with more precise seating and alignment? That’s what I’ve heard from some who had the seating issues I mentioned earlier, and supposedly this is a possible fix for it.

[Postal Bob]

One, that shape bullet sometimes has a problem in tight, short chambers, especially if you're loading long. The section of the bullet where the ogive starts, sometimes hits the rifling, prevent the round from completely chambering. On a round that doesn't chamber, use a marker to coat the efdge of the ogive, and rechamber it. Look for a mark on the bullet. I've had similiar problems with .40 cal FP bullets. They were fine in my limited gun with an extended chamber. But would sometimes hang up in my 1911 with a tight chamber.

Two, are you applying too much of a crimp, and actually causing the case to bulge at the bottom? Test for this by taking a seated round before crimping, and do the plunk tests.

[redpillregret]

One, that shape bullet sometimes has a problem in tight, short chambers, especially if you're loading long. The section of the bullet where the ogive starts, sometimes hits the rifling, prevent the round from completely chambering. On a round that doesn't chamber, use a marker to coat the efdge of the ogive, and rechamber it. Look for a mark on the bullet. I've had similiar problems with .40 cal FP bullets. They were fine in my limited gun with an extended chamber. But would sometimes hang up in my 1911 with a tight chamber.
Two, are you applying too much of a crimp, and actually causing the case to bulge at the bottom? Test for this by taking a seated round before crimping, and do the plunk tests.

Thanks for the reply, I don’t think it’s the crimp though that makes a lot of sense.




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[RAP]

I had the same problem a couple years ago when I started loading 9 mm for my CZ P09. I was loading Acme 147 FP coated Bullets and at first thought it was my crimp and or seating depth. After spending hours on those problems and eliminating them I noticed all the bullets that failed plunk test had a bulge on one side or they were not fully sized. I changed 3 dies and my problem disappeared. I went to a Lee carbide sizer die from an old RCBS, Redding Competition Seat die and a Redding taper crimp die. Now the only rounds that don’t chamber or pass the plunk test are ones with a split or defective cases.


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[Postal Bob]

You can also try a Lee Carbide sizing die. Unlike a lot of the other brands, the carbide ring is flush with the bottom of the die body. A lot of other dies have a tapered opening, that leads to the carbide ring. It makes for easier insertion of the brass, but doesn't size all the way to the bottom of the brass. With the Lee die, I've taken fired brass that had the infamous "Glock" bulge, and it completely removed the bulge. Worth giving it a try.

[redpillregret]

I ordered the Lee U-die yesterday and the Redding seating die, which will perhaps load better ammunition for those heavy coated 147s. Both dies were marked down and there was free shipping and 10% off so was a good time to buy. Thanks for the info guys!


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[zagnar]

I had this same problem . I finally figured the bullets were seating crooked sometimes, just enough to bluge and hang up. I went to a NOE expander plug with a Lee universal expander die in station 2. All my issues went away.

[Bob DuBois]

Went at this a little different, tried the Lee U die and Standard Lee Sizing die went back to the Standard Lee Sizing Die. Turn the powder through die down

till a piece of sized brass slips over the belling part of the powder through die. I used a drill press small files and sandpaper but it quicker if you know someone with a lathe.

Polish when through, might clean up the inside of the Powder through die a dremmel 1/8th drill bit with a strip of 400/600 sandpaper works well for this Polish 

the inside with metal polish and a patch taped to the end of the bit.

Had a insert made, flat to put in the Lee seating die, helps keep OAL closer  Dillon crimp die set with .0002 to .0004 crimp, If the Lee FCD is used back it off a bit so it only

crimps the very top of the case.

Lee's sizing die sizes closer to the case mouth and tighter than other brands. Because the carbide ring is closer to the case mouth set the come back after other dies

are set and set sizing die with a small strip of paper, should pull out with drag but not go in. If it hits the shell plate it can break the carbide ring.

Put your locking nut under the tool head as the threads are shorter on the Lee die. Use Dillon Lock nuts, lock the bottom with a good wrench, I put another nut on top

but don"t strip it out. The Lee Set is around $40.00 bucks. Be sure and Lube cases your working the brass harder. Loaded 500 nines last night with six that didn"t Drop all the 

way in a Lyman Gauge, tighter than a Dillon.

[IDescribe]

There is no way a Lee U-die is necessary for a cartridge to plunk in a chamber.  No chance. 

 

This is going to be one of those threads where two or three things get changed at the same time, things will suddenly work, and the OP will assign the victory to something, but will never really know what the actual problem was.

[redpillregret]

There is no way a Lee U-die is necessary for a cartridge to plunk in a chamber.  No chance. 

 

This is going to be one of those threads where two or three things get changed at the same time, things will suddenly work, and the OP will assign the victory to something, but will never really know what the actual problem was.

 

 

We already know the problem. The problem is in the sizing die. When I pushed the die down where it broke over when the tool head is at full extension, the brass passes the plunk test and the gauge test. However, it has caused some damage to the die as well as made the machine run very rough. Therefore, I will give the Lee a go. I’m also going to run the Redding seating die to possibly low straighter rounds.

 

I’m about 99% sure the existing RCBS carbide sizing die is out of spec. It is very flared at the bottom, and measuring the cases it isn’t sizing down far enough, and each case is hanging up on the same place it seems, just above the rim.

 

 

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[ddc]

6 hours ago, IDescribe said:

This is going to be one of those threads where two or three things get changed at the same time, things will suddenly work, and the OP will assign the victory to something, but will never really know what the actual problem was.

 

Unfortunately reloading isn't the only place in this universe where this takes place. I'm sure there are any number of examples but the "bro science"  of lifting discussed in the free weight section of my local gym comes to mind.

[CZ85Combat]

One thing to also look out for when loading 147gn bullets.  They are long and as you push them deeper into the case sometimes the base of the bullet will bulge the middle of the case.

Edited January 3, 2019 by CZ85Combat

[Steve RA]

Don't use the FCD.

[IDescribe]

On 12/31/2018 at 3:53 PM, redpillregret said:

 

We already know the problem. The problem is in the sizing die.

 

Bro, a fired unsized case will go back into the chamber.  Inserting a bullet into an unsized case and inserting into chamber with your fingertip, then removing and measuring, is one of the ways people determine max OAL for chamber.

Again, an unsized case will go back into the chamber, so if your cartridge won't plunk in a chamber, it's not the sizing die.  Well... unless the sizing die made it bigger.   

[redpillregret]

 
Bro, a fired unsized case will go back into the chamber.  Inserting a bullet into an unsized case and inserting into chamber with your fingertip, then removing and measuring, is one of the ways people determine max OAL for chamber.

Again, an unsized case will go back into the chamber, so if your cartridge won't plunk in a chamber, it's not the sizing die.  Well... unless the sizing die made it bigger.  [emoji6] 

Not necessarily the case when there are cases that have been fired in about a dozen different guns. Fired cases shot from one pistol don’t necessarily for the next one.


Good try though.



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[muncie21]

@redpillregret why would one think that a case fired from pistol A, would fit into the barrel of pistol B? 

 

Not trying to be a jerk, however this logic eludes me as barrel tolerances and regulated enough for one to make this comparison.

[redpillregret]

[mention=68752]redpillregret[/mention] why would one think that a case fired from pistol A, would fit into the barrel of pistol B? 

 

Not trying to be a jerk, however this logic eludes me as barrel tolerances and regulated enough for one to make this comparison.

 

 

ID stated it wasn’t a sizing problem. He’s attempting to state it is a COAL problem. It is a sizing problem. It is also impossible to segregate brass to ensure brass is only fired from one gun and lives with that gun. That notion is asinine.

 

 

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