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Dazhi

Winchester small pistol primer issue

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I have shot close to 60k of WSP and never had any problems.   This year, however, I seem to get a bad batch.  In 2 separate matches recently, I encounter light strikes.   I tried the bad rounds after the match in other people's guns, even on a stock G19, and none could go bang.

 

Is this normal with WSP quality control?  Based on my experience, Federals are very reliable but they are too sensitive.  I sold all my 20k stock pile of GM100 after it blew up my 650 last year.  I can still hand prime them if I want to, but I hate the slow process.   Will CCI have the same quality as Federals?   

 

 

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Light primers don’t blow up reloading presses.

 

are you getting 1 out of 100 or 1 out of 1,000 light strikes. 

 

Maybe your fear of blowing up primers in press your not seating them enough?

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

Light primers don’t blow up reloading presses.

 

are you getting 1 out of 100 or 1 out of 1,000 light strikes. 

 

Maybe your fear of blowing up primers in press your not seating them enough?

 

 

 

This. I've used over 60k Winchester primers, and I've never had one not go bang.  I've crushed them and Federals into cases sideways and they didn't blow up.

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Don’t forget to run a patch with brake clean down the primer tube every now and then. It gets dirty fast with the “dirt” being priming compound.  I’ve recently got a few sideways fspp lately and no bang.

 

the only 2 I’ve set off in my 650 off are were fiocchi  non-toxic primers

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I finally worked through my Hillary stash of WSP and are now using 2018 manufactured primers. I have experienced no light stikes and performance is the same as it has been for years.

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Hello: One thing to look for is the primer hole. In some of the once fired brass I have reloaded the primer pocket is too large and the primer sits there and sometimes falls out. I have never had a problem with Winchester primers not going bang. I have used lots of CCI's as well and they work. Federals don't go bag in my RL1050 but work in my pistols. Thanks, Eric

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I don't have a problem with light strikes, but I do have a problem with oval WSP.  They stick in the primmer tube filler and gum up the works.  For everything other that one Steel gun, I use CCI.  The have a harder cup the Fed or Win, but they always go bang.  And the are always round.

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1 hour ago, Dazhi said:

  I encounter light strikes.   I tried the bad rounds in other people's guns, and none could go bang.

 

I had this happen during a match, and blamed the primer.  

 

But  during my next reloading session, I noticed that a fired primer had NOT been removed

and my SDB continued on its merry way and dumped powder and I seated a

bullet in the case with a fired primer.

 

That got me thinking - either a WW primer had failed ?? (1/1,000,000) ,  OR

I had reloaded  fresh powder and bullet into a case with a fired primer (1/1,000).

 

The odds seem to favor the fact that the primers were probably perfect, but my

reloading technique was faulty and I simply failed to remove a fired primer.

 

But, I'll never know for sure     :( 

 

BUT, I am more cautious now and watch for pre-fired primers during reloading.     :) 

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Not sure if I made it clear first time. Trying this again.

Federals blew up a whole tube on my 650 last year due to one sideway primer feed. Replaced the whole primer assembly per Dillon, and was told never to run Federals on 650.

WSP and SB have been crushed, flattened on my 650 without blowing up. They are safe. I have no fear of WSP. Not Federals.

WSP has worked great for the past 60k or so. The latest batch came from PowderValley. My match ammo is gauged not on hundos but individually. I inspect them each and single one individually. There is no chance a spent primer can end up there because on top of individual visual inspection, I use Mark 7 decapping sensor.

I am 100% sure it's the primer not going bang at this point. I just pulled the bullet, dumpped the powder and hammered the nail into the primer with no bang.

It appears defective WSP has not been observed elsewhere besides my episodes. Maybe just my bad luck. Will try the next two 5k boxes from Cabelas. Hope they work better but I probably will hand prime Federal for match ammo for now.

2f3b0bd66f980806b4daa9b40511c492.jpg

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I don't have a problem with light strikes, but I do have a problem with oval WSP.  They stick in the primmer tube filler and gum up the works.  For everything other that one Steel gun, I use CCI.  The have a harder cup the Fed or Win, but they always go bang.  And the are always round.
Yes. I use Pal Filler, an auto primer feeding device, and I notice WSP and SB occassionally get stuck on it. The Pal Filler is CNCed, which implies these 2 brands do have dimension QC issues. This never happened with Federals as far as I can recall.

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2 hours ago, Dazhi said:

Not sure if I made it clear first time. Trying this again.

Federals blew up a whole tube on my 650 last year due to one sideway primer feed
 

 

I would like to understand this better. Where was the primer when it turned sideways and fired?  Was it in the tube (primer magazine according to Dillon's terminology)? In the rotary disk? Being pushed into the case?

 

I can imagine that the primers might get a shock when they are dropped into the tube since they drop quite a distance. Is that when it happened?

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50 minutes ago, superdude said:

 

I would like to understand this better. Where was the primer when it turned sideways and fired?  Was it in the tube (primer magazine according to Dillon's terminology)? In the rotary disk? Being pushed into the case?

 

I can imagine that the primers might get a shock when they are dropped into the tube since they drop quite a distance. Is that when it happened?

 

I did not intend to talk about the Federal primer explosion here but since you ask, here are the details. 

 

The Federal primer got into the primer pocket side ways, and detonated during the priming, causing a chain reaction.  All the 9 or so rest Federal primers on the disk exploded then chain detonated the others sitting in the tube.  It's most likely the vibration of the first detonation is enough for all the rest on the disk to explode.  The inner aluminum tube cannot even be removed because it's totally shattered.  The outer steel tube remains intact although Dillon told me to not reuse it.  I bought the whole new set of primer assembly per Dillon suggested, because all the parts that may appear still in good shape may in fact have structural damages.  The explosion also sent the stick deep into the ceiling. 

 

I used to be a non-believer that Federal primers are this sensitive.  I loaded at least 30k of them without issue until the incident.  Sure I have had plenty side way Federal primers not explode before, but this one did, and it's enough for me to ditch Federals on my 650.  I guess all primers are not made the same, even the same brand, different or same batch.  Some are more sensitive and will go bang with moderate vibration, while others won't go bang even with a hammer/nail. 

 

These kind episodes are quite frequent.  If you are still a non believer, just call Dillon and ask their tech how many 650s have to get primer assembly replaced due to Federal explosions.  They will tell you DO NOT load Federal primers on 650.   

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3 minutes ago, Dazhi said:

 

I did not intend to talk about the Federal primer explosion here but since you ask, here are the details. 

 

The Federal primer got into the primer pocket side ways, and detonated during the priming, causing a chain reaction.  All the 9 or so rest Federal primers on the disk exploded then chain detonated the others sitting in the tube.  It's most likely the vibration of the first detonation is enough for all the rest on the disk to explode.  The inner aluminum tube cannot even be removed because it's totally shattered.  The outer steel tube remains intact although Dillon told me to not reuse it.  I bought the whole new set of primer assembly per Dillon suggested, because all the parts that may appear still in good shape may in fact have structural damages.  The explosion also sent the stick deep into the ceiling. 

 

I used to be a non-believer that Federal primers are this sensitive.  I loaded at least 30k of them without issue until the incident.  Sure I have had plenty side way Federal primers not explode before, but this one did, and it's enough for me to ditch Federals on my 650.  I guess all primers are not made the same, even the same brand, different or same batch.  Some are more sensitive and will go bang with moderate vibration, while others won't go bang even with a hammer/nail. 

 

These kind episodes are quite frequent.  If you are still a non believer, just call Dillon and ask their tech how many 650s have to get primer assembly replaced due to Federal explosions.  They will tell you DO NOT load Federal primers on 650.   

 

Thank you!  for the details on this event. It's what I need to better understand how these events occur. It's how we learn. Thanks again. 

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6 hours ago, Dazhi said:

Not sure if I made it clear first time. Trying this again.

Federals blew up a whole tube on my 650 last year due to one sideway primer feed. Replaced the whole primer assembly per Dillon, and was told never to run Federals on 650.

WSP and SB have been crushed, flattened on my 650 without blowing up. They are safe. I have no fear of WSP. Not Federals.

WSP has worked great for the past 60k or so. The latest batch came from PowderValley. My match ammo is gauged not on hundos but individually. I inspect them each and single one individually. There is no chance a spent primer can end up there because on top of individual visual inspection, I use Mark 7 decapping sensor.

I am 100% sure it's the primer not going bang at this point. I just pulled the bullet, dumpped the powder and hammered the nail into the primer with no bang.

It appears defective WSP has not been observed elsewhere besides my episodes. Maybe just my bad luck. Will try the next two 5k boxes from Cabelas. Hope they work better but I probably will hand prime Federal for match ammo for now.

2f3b0bd66f980806b4daa9b40511c492.jpg

  Maybe it is just me. but that primer appears to be seated way too deep. Can you manually decap it and see if it even has an anvil?

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@dazhi I'm kinda surprised that you had to buy the replacement primer parts for the 650.  Most stories I've read, indicate that dillon sends these out with no charge, even though by rights,it was not the fault of the machine, that caused the primer explosion

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Gangfires in primer tubes are real things.  It happens.  People get injured.  And you are exposed to a lot of lead styphnate.

I have had dead Federal primers.  The priming compound had turned brown.  Don't know the cause.

Federal are softest.  Winchester are second softest.  CCI are great, but maybe not if you are running reduced power main spring or striker spring.

I'd recommend you stick with Winchester.  ANY company can produce bad primers.  Switching to another company doesn't guarantee you now bad primers

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Funny thing now that you brought this up I have had a couple WSPP not go bang lately. Put it off as something I did although I do inspect every primer in my Hundo 100 gauge when case gauging. 

 

I also have had several spent primers not come out of the pocket or come out partial when de-capping & sizing, but can feel the new primer squash as it goes in and stop. 

 

I have squashed WSPP every way possible and never had a problem. CCI on the other hand are much harder and generally will not squash.

 

gerritm

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I have yet to see a bad batch from Winchester but it definitely can happen.  I still have the better part of 2k CCI SPP that are useless.  Maybe 1 in 5 will actually go off.  I have labeled them as "practice only" but they honestly aren't worth wasting the time or components to load.  I switched to Win after this experience with CCI.  The primer in your picture looks a little deep but that also depends on what you're running them in.  Tons of revolver guys seat Federals that deep to get reliable ignition with light hammer springs.  If you can't set it off with a hammer and a nail I would call it a bad primer.

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22 hours ago, zzt said:

I do have a problem with oval WSP. 

 

Same. I don’t run them for this reason.

 

22 hours ago, zzt said:

I use CCI.  The have a harder cup the Fed or Win, but they always go bang.  And the are always round.

 

I could not agree with you more strongly. Big fan of CCI primers. Run fullpower striker / hammer springs and they’re boringly reliable.

 

I bought a ton of CCI magnum small primers a while back. Didn’t seem any harder to detonate and chrono values were unchanged. Would buy them again.

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12 hours ago, singleshot said:

  Maybe it is just me. but that primer appears to be seated way too deep. Can you manually decap it and see if it even has an anvil?

that was my thought

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I inspect my  primers for major matches, and I noticed my last batch of Winchester spm some of the primers had less priming compound than others, i separated them, loaded them up for practice and chronoed. They all fired, and the velocity was the same as the ammo with the regular amount priming compound. I can totally see a few getting primers without any priming compound.

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On 12/26/2018 at 10:06 PM, singleshot said:

  Maybe it is just me. but that primer appears to be seated way too deep. Can you manually decap it and see if it even has an anvil?

^^^ I agree.  Looks seated very deep.  Although that strike is lite, it most likely should still fire though, if the anvil is present.....

 

I use thousands upon thousands of Winchester SPP.  Mainly because I can find them on sale easier with hazmat and/or shipping deals.  I have never had one fail, but I have had lite-strikes which would fire with a second hit so that's likely on me.  Any brand can have a bad batch though.  CCI does seem to seat smoother for me.

Edited by BJB

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