IDPA Classification for CGW 10040 IDPA Production Legal Hammer Kit

[ib2plankn]

So i'm a bit confused by CGWs use of IDPA, "Production", and "Legal"

 

What is the "CZ-UB" Hammer?

(https://cajungunworks.com/product/production-legal-drop-in-hammer-kit/)

"CZ-UB production legal manual safety hammer kit utilizing the CZC hammer"

(https://czcustom.com/cz-parts-all/fire-control/cz-sa-da-sa-only-competition-hammer.html)

 

Is this a hammer from the custom shop or is the a hammer available that on a production pistol that would qualify as a drop in part from another SSP pistol?

 

I installed the 75115 Production Legal Kit:

1. 10040 Production Legal Hammer Kit (complies with IDPA & USPSA).  NOTE: the CGW Race hammer 80001 is USPSA legal, please enter “80001”  in the comments section during checkout if you want to substitute the 80001 hammer for the 10040 hammer.
2. 1485-T2 disconnector
3. TR-PIN
4. RP-TRS
5. 85C Combat trigger
6. SRS-1
7. 2 x HPIN
8. 2 x 28 grip screw

 

I asked CGW customer service for some documentation on where their hammer came from and I got this reply:

 

"The race hammer is our part and is not IDPA approved.  You would only be able to use a CZ factory hammer like the competition hammer to remain legal in that class."

 

I'm torn, I love how the gun handles but I didn't realized that I had disqualified myself from SSP.  Anyone else in this boat?

 

I hate that I bought a product that "complies with IDPA" just to find out it is "not IDPA approved."

 

 

 

[SouperMan]

Don’t shoot IDPA. I kid!

 

The CGW Race Hammer is what knocks it out of SSP and into ESP, the CGW Race Hammer is made by CGW. Get the Production Legal Hammer as it is made by CZ, it’s a Factory part used/available as a option from CZ. Use the 10040 Hammer. 

 

The Race Hammer’s spur is preferred by those who like use a large rear sight or a optic, it allows them to grasp the Hammer better for decocking and such, but from what I understand the cuts on the Hammer that mate to the sear are cut at the same angle as the OEM CZ Competition Hammer, so it should be just about the same feel.

 

Here’s a photo that I’ve seen around that describes the parts that are from the factory as a option for the SP-01 Shadow. All the parts come from the CZ Factory. 

[ib2plankn]

So, dumb question (that's probably answered elsewhere),  other than decocking, what is the performance differences between the stock hammer and what I have installed?  I've looked for the "Combat Hammer" online with no luck.

 

The difference between SSP and ESP is 2 seconds in MM and 1 second in SS...  I can make up that one second by aiming and it would be a lot cheaper than buying another part for a gun that's already running smooth.

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by ib2plankn

[ib2plankn]

Also, IDPA is just the gateway drug...

 

All hardcore users started somewhere lol

[DesertTortoise]

I think you have the hammer off of the shadow, not the Cajun “race hammer”

 

need an idpa rule expert to weigh in

Edited December 24, 2018 by DesertTortoise

[SouperMan]

So, dumb question (that's probably answered elsewhere),  other than decocking, what is the performance differences between the stock hammer and what I have installed?  I've looked for the "Combat Hammer" online with no luck.
 
The difference between SSP and ESP is 2 seconds in MM and 1 second in SS...  I can make up that one second by aiming and it would be a lot cheaper than buying another part for a gun that's already running smooth.
 

The Cajun Race Hammer and the CZ Competition Hammer have very similar hammer cuts, if not, the same so any differences would be very slight.

The stock ring hammer has cuts on the hammer that when the hammer is released by pulling the trigger, the sear and hammer interact in a way where there’s a slight rotate back action that is introduced. The hammer actually moves back slightly before it swings forward, which introduces the creep and long pull.

With the Cajun Race Hammer or CZ Competition Hammer, this doesn’t happen as the hammer cuts provide a clean break and essentially slips off.

Hope this helps.

[SouperMan]

Also, IDPA is just the gateway drug...
 
All hardcore users started somewhere lol

Just wish that IDPA loosened up the rules a little, but every sport has its own rules. Back in the day we had had to use the SSP in ESP rule to get around the fact that the SP-01 couldn’t be in SSP because of the Full Length Dust Cover Rule.

USPSA just recently loosened the rules about exchange of Original From Manufacture Parts and After Market Parts, provided they performed the same function, your issues would be a non-issue in USPSA.

I think you have the hammer off of the shadow, not the Cajun “race hammer”
 
need an idpa rule expert to weigh in

I’m pretty sure the OP has a Cajun Race Hammer. It looks nothing like a CZ part.

There’s actually a difference between a SP-01 and a SP-01 Shadow’s Hammer width. The Shadow’s Hammer is actually fatter, while the SP-01 [with firing pin block] is skinnier. CZ-UB makes a competition hammer that fits the SP-01 (with Firing pin block) that accommodates this skinnier width. For a time, CZ Custom would resize some fatter Shadow hammers to fit FPB SP-01s.

[bigdave24]

If you’re forced into ESP you can start cocked and locked.  You might enjoy it more.

[EarlKeese]

  The 71115 kit includes the "10040" hammer which is IDPA compliant. CGW gets this hammer from CZ Customs or CZ. It's CZC's comp hammer which has been used on enough production guns with CZ-USA part numbers to qualify. So O.P., if you have the hammer pictured on the CGW page for the "71115" kit, it's gtg for IDPA and USPSA.

 This hammer will usually yield a slightly lighter and slightly less crisp break when compared to the Cajun "race" hammer. Away from the bench and on the range, they are very close in feel.

[ib2plankn]

GTG for SSP or ESP?  I know im splitting hairs, I should just buy a magwell and run cocked and locked in ESP lol.

 

Most Tier I matches would never notice...  I want to run in the CO IDPA Champs Match in August, and at that point I feel like I should have my act together.  

 

 

[ib2plankn]

@earlkeese... that was the original point of my post, the 10040 hammer is "IDPA Compliant" but when I emailed them it was "not IDPA approved" 

 

Really great product, really shady marketing... but it worked, they got my money.

 

In the words of George W...

 

“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”

 

Edited December 25, 2018 by ib2plankn

[DesertTortoise]

The way I read their response in the OPs email was "our hammer" meaning the Cajun made race hammer, not the idpa compliant one in the kit you ordered.

Maybe give them a call after the holidays

[SouperMan]

12 hours ago, ib2plankn said:

@earlkeese... that was the original point of my post, the 10040 hammer is "IDPA Compliant" but when I emailed them it was "not IDPA approved" 

 

Really great product, really shady marketing... but it worked, they got my money.

 

In the words of George W...

 

“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”

 

 

OP, let me set your mind at ease. This really boils down to the hammer that you have. 

 

If you have a Cajun Gun Works Race Hammer that looks like this, you may shoot in USPSA Production, and IDPA Enhanced Service Pistol.

 

If you have the CZ-UB Competition Hammer that looks like this, you may shoot in USPSA Production, and IDPA Stock Service Pistol (and Enhanced Service Pistol).

 

From here, you decide what division you are required to be in (or what part you want to swap out to meet compliance.)

 

I am in no way advocating dishonesty or cheating IDPA Rules, but so far as the market goes, you can visually tell the difference between a Aftermarket Hammer, or an Original From Manufacture Hammer. As far as I can tell, only Cajun is making "after market hammers" and no one is making a CZ-UB Competition hammers that look exactly like Original From Manufacturer.

 

[ib2plankn]

Plot twist,  I got an email from David at CGW...

 

"All our kits that end in the number "5" use the factory CZ Competition hammer, which is 100% IDPA Production Legal.  So if you installed our 75115, you are compliant and no further upgrades.  SSP should also allow our 75115, which again, uses the factory competition hammer."

 

I'm just gonna print that email and quit my bellyaching.

 

Happy New Years!