BentAero Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 My first taste of Bayou Bullets 145 gr RN. Seating/crimp combo die is a Hornady. 1) See the faint crease-line on the nose from the die? Does my case expansion/flare need to be larger? i.e is it taking too much force to seat the bullet hence it's causing the crease? Does it matter? Don't worry about it? I noticed the same thing on Gallant coated, but not Acme. 2) I'm assuming the crimp is too tight, which is causing the cut line in the coating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Yes, too much crimp. Never want to cut the coating. If you have the stations available I would suggest seating and crimping in separate steps. Lee makes a good taper crimp die very cheap, not the factory crimp die as that die often causes other problems with coated lead. As as for the ring on the nose, it probably isn’t going to hurt anything, but measure the bullet you pulled to make sure you haven’t swaged it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BentAero Posted December 16, 2018 Author Share Posted December 16, 2018 Thanks. The pulled bullet measures .356, the same as the unused new ones. (25 year old Mitutoyo non-digital from my Pratt-Whitney days) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 hour ago, BentAero said: I'm assuming the crimp is too tight, which is causing the cut line in the coating? We don't actually "crimp" 9mm, just remove the belling - straighten the case back out. If you fire a bunch of those, you'll probably be disappointed with the accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BentAero Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said: We don't actually "crimp" 9mm, just remove the belling - straighten the case back out. If you fire a bunch of those, you'll probably be disappointed with the accuracy. A bunch of those -as in Bayou? Or a bunch of those as in "crimped" like the photo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GringoBandito Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) If you can, switch to the separate Lee seating and crimping dies and check out the dillon crimp calculator. BTW the seating stem does not look like it was made for RN. https://dillonprecision.net/crimp-calculator/ Edited December 17, 2018 by GringoBandito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcc7x7 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 6 hours ago, BentAero said: A bunch of those -as in Bayou? Or a bunch of those as in "crimped" like the photo? "as in crimped like that" Bayou's shoot great. But no coated bullets works well with a heavy crimp like that. Back your crimp die off to just straighten the bell out or appox. .001 under. Mine plunk/case gauge much better with the crimp set at .001-.002 under Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 For the record the Hornady seating die will leave that size ring on coated and soft plated bullets. The Dillon die leaves a much smaller one near the apex/tip of the bullet and neither will not effect anything more than looks for sub sonic loads. Both dies are correct for RN bullets. The crimp is too much, as everyone will contend. You didn’t state which die set you use but the answer for crimping should include “taper” in its description. For 9mm I have found the Dillion taper crimp die gives the smoothest cleanest “crimp” amongst the three I have used (Lee, Hornady, & Dillon). Part of the fun of this hobby is finding the perfect load for you gun. You’re on the right track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajblack Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Some people will say that 9mm doesn't need any crimp and others will say that the crimp should measure .001 - .003, but the important thing is that you're not cutting the coating. Luckily, 9mm is pretty forgiving with crimp so even if you don't have an extra station to crimp separately, you should be able to back off the crimp until you're just removing the bell of the case and still have consistent ammo. The same cannot be said for some other calibers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I run minimal crimp as determined by the OUTSIDE diameter at the bullet end of the brass. Out of my gun, the best accuracy is found when that measurement is 0.3795 to 0.3805. Going down to 0.3780 increases groupings at 35 yards from 3 to 6". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I seem to remember that the crimp should measure .376. If you put a factory round in the shell holder and back off the crimp die a bit you can set the crimp to factory specs. Bayous shoot great and so will your ammo after a bit of tweaking. (Not twerking!) LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BentAero Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 Thanks everyone, I appreciate your wisdom. I haven't loaded any of the Bayou yet for firing purpose. The photo was a test of seating starting point of a Bayou with the die still set for Acme 135 RN from the previous run. With a clean shell plate it measured 1.157" so it was out there a bit. The several Acme 145 and 135, and Gallant 147 bullets I've pulled never had anywhere near that much coating cut. I'll adjust and assemble a few rounds for chrono testing around Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dons Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 The crease you're experiencing may be caused by using a seat/crimp die. The bullet is still moving into the case as the crimp is applied, resulting in some scraping of the coating. If you were to seat and crimp in two separate operations, as suggested earlier, the crease may disappear. Try seating a few bullets in your current die without any crimp; back out the die completely until there's no crimp at all, then screw in the seating stem until you get your preferred overall length, and seat the bullets. Then back out the seating stem and readjust the die to crimp only and run your cartridges back through the die. You may be surprised with the results. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kixx Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 I don’t crimp 9mm Minor loads at all and have never had accuracy issues, but I use FMJ bullets, so ymmv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stick Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 If you see the ring, then you are using too much crimp. I don't crimp 9mm at all, I just remove the flair from the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 I shoot bare swaged lead On 12/17/2018 at 1:27 PM, Dr. Phil said: I seem to remember that the crimp should measure .376. If you put a factory round in the shell holder and back off the crimp die a bit you can set the crimp to factory specs. Bayous shoot great and so will your ammo after a bit of tweaking. (Not twerking!) LOL There is no such thing as factory specs for a caliber. Different manufacturers, different specs. Different components from same manufacturer, different specs. .376 is too narrow for. 356 coated lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Case wall thickness x 2 + bullet diameter = crimp. So, if your case wall is .011, and the bullet is .356, .356 +.022 = .378. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 As I have said before, you can crimp to .379 and not worry about it for everything except .358 lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Strange. I crimp to .376 or .3765 and I shoot .358 dia bullets. Never said there was a "factory" spec. Fortunately I can learn a lot from the resident experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 On 12/20/2018 at 1:15 PM, Dr. Phil said: Never said there was a "factory" spec. Um... On 12/17/2018 at 1:27 PM, Dr. Phil said: If you put a factory round in the shell holder and back off the crimp die a bit you can set the crimp to factory specs. I think you sorta kinda did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Yep I kinda did LOL. So I measured some of the factory stuff I have on hand, at the crimp. Federal .3755 Black Talon .376 (Win cases) Winchester .3765 Blazer .3755 (FC cases) Seems like a great place to start setting the crimp. (I kinda said that too ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olstyn Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Dr. Phil said: Yep I kinda did LOL. So I measured some of the factory stuff I have on hand, at the crimp. Federal .3755 Seems like a great place to start setting the crimp. (I kinda said that too ) Which Federal load was that? For the purpose of this thread (coated bullets), I think the factory load most likely to be a relevant comparison would be Federal Syntech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 (edited) Nope. 125gr fmj. The original questions in the thread were referring to, does the crimp line in the bullet matter, etc. I think a crimp line that doesn't cut the moly coating does not matter. But maybe that's just me... Would be interesting to pull a Syntech and see if there is a crimp line tho. I also don't see that the OP shot any of these. Maybe they shoot fine? Worth checking out. Edited December 22, 2018 by Dr. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olstyn Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 6 hours ago, Dr. Phil said: I think a crimp line that doesn't cut the moly coating does not matter. But maybe that's just me... Given that the photograph isn't perfectly focused, it's hard to be sure, but it looks to me as though the coating may have been cut - the ring around the bullet looks metallic to me. I agree that it would be interesting to pull a Syntech round to see what it looks like. I'd volunteer to do it except that I only ever had 200 rounds of the 115 grain stuff that I got from the prize table at a match about a year and a half ago, and it's long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 12 hours ago, Dr. Phil said: Seems like a great place to start setting the crimp. (I kinda said that too ) What a factory crimps to .355 jacketed bullets to is not what you want to crimp .356 coated lead to. Bad place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now