PCC dryfire

[RaylanGivens]

On 12/28/2018 at 10:26 AM, Acer2428 said:

FWIW I just started using an airsoft gun. It's a gas blow back, not a battery operated mini-gun like you see the kids running around with. It uses compressed LP gas to cycle the action, so you get some semblance of recoil, noise, etc. AND it's accurate enough for feedback. I use it in my basement from 3-10 yards and use a foam backer behind it to keep from denting the walls. 

 

So far I really like it. Only downside it trigger is different, but it appears to take normal AR rails. I bought mine w/ a 15" rail similar to the original AR-9 PCC I was running before I swapped over to an MPX. I bought a $25 Pinty optic on Amazon that has the same reticle as my 510c. I'm enjoying it so far, although I can't get the timer to pick it up. 

 

The new AMG Labs Commander is very sensitive...  It will pick up you snapping your fingers on its most sensitive mode...  Check out the short video on their main site...  It shows an air gun.

 

https://www.amg-lab.com/

 

[2Alphamikenoshoot]

 
The new AMG Labs Commander is very sensitive...  It will pick up you snapping your fingers on its most sensitive mode...  Check out the short video on their main site...  It shows an air gun.
 
https://www.amg-lab.com/
 

I’ve been considering getting one of the Sig Sauer MpX airsoft Gun just for practice in my back yard. I live in a neighborhood so it would be pretty useful.



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[2scoops]

Really great suggestions. Been reading with great interest. Thanks to all that contributed.

[Acer2428]

15 hours ago, devilsdenguns said:

 

I’ve been considering getting one of the Sig Sauer MpX airsoft Gun just for practice in my back yard. I live in a neighborhood so it would be pretty useful.



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FWIW It's an 'air gun' not 'airsoft' since it uses CO2 to fire .177 pellets. Not something I'd want to fire indoors. Airsoft jobbers fire little plastic pellets that could dent drywall, but that's about it. 

[jkrispies]

What are folks getting for unloaded table starts?  Beep to first shot?  I jiust started practicing them and am getting 2.75 as a par target but it’s a little all over the place.  Not consistent at all.  I’m thinking this is pretty doggone slow but not sure.  Of course I’m also realizing that comparing pars for this one might be difficult based on table height, gun and mag placement requirements, etc.  

Edited January 17, 2019 by jkrispies

[Acer2428]

On 12/29/2018 at 8:06 PM, andrewt556 said:

Can you share the model you bought with me

 

Not sure how I missed this, sorry. The weak point are the mags. I've taken to not firing the BB's anymore, but still using the gas blowback to simulate recoil. 

 

This is the model I bought: https://www.evike.com/products/81100/

Edited January 17, 2019 by Acer2428

[2scoops]

On 1/16/2019 at 9:32 PM, jkrispies said:

What are folks getting for unloaded table starts?  Beep to first shot?  I jiust started practicing them and am getting 2.75 as a par target but it’s a little all over the place.  Not consistent at all.  I’m thinking this is pretty doggone slow but not sure.  Of course I’m also realizing that comparing pars for this one might be difficult based on table height, gun and mag placement requirements, etc.  

Compare loading the gun at hip height versus loading with the gun mounted at shoulder height. I’ve found loading the gun at shoulder height is more consistent and slightly quicker for me. This is particularly when moving into position whilst loading

[jkrispies]

3 minutes ago, 2scoops said:

Compare loading the gun at hip height versus loading with the gun mounted at shoulder height. I’ve found loading the gun at shoulder height is more consistent and slightly quicker for me. This is particularly when moving into position whilst loading

Good idea-- didn't think of that because it keeps it more consistent... basically just doing a standard reload.  I'll try myself on the timer like that and see if it helps.

[MemphisMechanic]

@jkrispies definitely. I also think it’s faster to load off your belt than the table with a rifle. Snap it to your shoulder then execute your most practiced reload, all while instantly leaving the table behind instead of lingering a little bit.

 

This depends on a lot of factors however; like how long your first movement is. I’m presuming you can’t see a target for 5+ steps.

 

Edited January 19, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[jkrispies]

4 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

@jkrispies definitely. I also think it’s faster to load off your belt than the table with a rifle. Snap it to your shoulder then execute your most practiced reload, all while instantly leaving the table behind instead of lingering a little bit.

 

This depends on a lot of factors however; like how long your first movement is. I’m presuming you can’t see a target for 5+ steps.

 

Hhmmm...  another thing to practice on the clock.  I know I can get the magazine set in two or maybe three steps off the belt... not sure how many steps to rack the bolt.  I need to practice that.  Having said that, I'm coming back to USPSA after a break, but my memory is that stage rules for unloaded table starts in my area tend to state "two X's on table, gun on one and magazine on the other."  In that instance, would I be faster mounting the gun, then inserting the magazine, and racking, or scooping the magazine into the gun as I lift it to my shoulder and then racking?  I'm going to practice both and see which works best.

[Steve RA]

Do the rules say the bolt has to be closed??  If not, starting with the bolt back would also help.

[MemphisMechanic]

13 minutes ago, Steve RA said:

Do the rules say the bolt has to be closed??  If not, starting with the bolt back would also help.

 

There are only like three guys shooting PCCs left in the country who can lock their bolts back.

 

 

Everyone else is short stroked.

[MemphisMechanic]

22 minutes ago, jkrispies said:

stage rules for unloaded table starts in my area tend to state "two X's on table, gun on one and magazine on the other."

 

Leave that magazine behind.

 

Heh heh heh.

 

(Orrrr? If your magwell permits it and the table cooperates, this is generally pretty damn fast. If you aren’t running colt mags which need a jackhammer to seat them.) 

 

 

[jkrispies]

2 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

Leave that magazine behind.

 

Heh heh heh.

 

(Orrrr? If your magwell permits it and the table cooperates, this is generally pretty damn fast. If you aren’t running colt mags which need a jackhammer to seat them.) 

 

 

Agreeing with everything (including potentially  the mag behind and just running... though maybe not, LOL) but what if the situation is basically an unloaded table start with the first target right in front of you so it's literally buzzer, load, shoot, then run.  In that instance, shoulder then seat and rack, or scoop and rack?

[MemphisMechanic]

41 minutes ago, jkrispies said:

Agreeing with everything (including potentially  the mag behind and just running... though maybe not, LOL) but what if the situation is basically an unloaded table start with the first target right in front of you so it's literally buzzer, load, shoot, then run.  In that instance, shoulder then seat and rack, or scoop and rack?

 

I personally like getting it up on your shoulder for the entire procedure. That’s where all of that is always done otherwise. Also more conducive to doing these tasks while moving. (note: my rifle is absurdly light out front. Controlling it with firecontrol hand only and running is much easier  than a noseheavy JP.)

 

Play with them both, I think they’re equally fast if practiced hard. It’s roughly the same amount of total movement either way.

 

Edited January 19, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[jkrispies]

1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

I personally like getting it up on your shoulder for the entire procedure. That’s where all of that is always done otherwise. Also more conducive to doing these tasks while moving. (note: my rifle is absurdly light out front. Controlling it with firecontrol hand only and running is much easier  than a noseheavy JP.)

 

Play with them both, I think they’re equally fast if practiced hard. It’s roughly the same amount of total movement either way.

 

The way I've been practicing it is to basically have the grip facing the opposite direction as the magazine, grab and rotate the gun to proper orientation while scooping the magazine into the magwell, shoulder, and rack the slide.  This is exactly same process I used when I was presented with this start position as a Single Stack shooter, minus the shouldering of course.  In fact, if the stage directions didn't disallow it, I'd prop the pistol up with the top tip of the magazine to help get my thumb under the gun.  It's a natural movement that feels surprisingly similar to coming out of the holster.  Since my rifle is light out front as well, grabbing it this way really doesn't feel any different to me than when I'm grabbing my 1911.

 

I just tried the "gamer" way from the video above with the magazine separated but pointing into the magwell.  The biggest difference here is the grip is pointed the opposite direction from what I'm used to doing with the pistol, so it's more of coming underneath it with my hand and rotating vs. a coming over top and rotating.  I think this gamer way is faster getting the magazine into the gun... but I keep forgetting to rack the damn bolt!!!!!!  In this cheater position, it feels like a normal reload and my mind is conditioned to believe there's already one in the hole and my support hand goes straight to the forearm.  I know that's a training issue but the pistol style of start is so ingrained into me, I wonder if it's worth the effort to break the habit?

[MemphisMechanic]

On the charging handle... waht do you run? My Raptor is just long enough I can either blade my hand or make a fist, and hook it with my index finger. Lets you hit it on fly to rip the charging handle back.

 

If you have to stop and grip the thing, change what you run.

 

[HoMiE]

2 hours ago, Steve RA said:

Do the rules say the bolt has to be closed??  If not, starting with the bolt back would also help.

Same rules as pistol, slide forward, hammer down is bolt forward, hammer down unless the wsb says you can. 

[Steve RA]

Ok, Thanks.

[HoMiE]

25 minutes ago, jkrispies said:

The way I've been practicing it is to basically have the grip facing the opposite direction as the magazine, grab and rotate the gun to proper orientation while scooping the magazine into the magwell, shoulder, and rack the slide.  This is exactly same process I used when I was presented with this start position as a Single Stack shooter, minus the shouldering of course.  In fact, if the stage directions didn't disallow it, I'd prop the pistol up with the top tip of the magazine to help get my thumb under the gun.  It's a natural movement that feels surprisingly similar to coming out of the holster.  Since my rifle is light out front as well, grabbing it this way really doesn't feel any different to me than when I'm grabbing my 1911.

 

I just tried the "gamer" way from the video above with the magazine separated but pointing into the magwell.  The biggest difference here is the grip is pointed the opposite direction from what I'm used to doing with the pistol, so it's more of coming underneath it with my hand and rotating vs. a coming over top and rotating.  I think this gamer way is faster getting the magazine into the gun... but I keep forgetting to rack the damn bolt!!!!!!  In this cheater position, it feels like a normal reload and my mind is conditioned to believe there's already one in the hole and my support hand goes straight to the forearm.  I know that's a training issue but the pistol style of start is so ingrained into me, I wonder if it's worth the effort to break the habit?

I’ve found having the grip point towards weakside and coming up with gun is faster than picking up and rotating magwell. Come in underneath, lift gun up, insert mag as I’m moving towards shoulder, then rack it. It definitely helps with a side charging upper. I have to leave some space when using rear charging upper whereas with side charger the gun is already in your shoulder when you cycle bolt. I can pretty much fire the first shot as I’m moving support hand forward. 

[jkrispies]

2 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

On the charging handle... waht do you run? My Raptor is just long enough I can either blade my hand or make a fist, and hook it with my index finger. Lets you hit it on fly to rip the charging handle back.

 

If you have to stop and grip the thing, change what you run.

 

It's an older BCM ambi charger.  I like it well enough, but a Raptor may be better suited for a bladed hit.  I'm also hooking it with my finger, but it's probably the greatest area where I'm going to be limited-- my arm strength is kinda out the window from too many injuries.  It's the reason I'm shooting rifles almost exclusively now rather than rifles and pistols both.  I can get away with not having it shouldered to rack it, but the safest move for me is to shoulder and then rack.  I don't want to accept a deficiency, but for right now it kind of is what it is.  

 

EDIT TO ADD:  AAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!  I'm so frustrated-- I need a frigging magwell!!!!!  Anyway, when I do this method, and I don't completely fumble the insert, I'm .25 faster than I was before.  I'm certain that I can take this method down another .25 at least, just by adding a quality magwell.  

Edited January 19, 2019 by jkrispies

[jkrispies]

Just tried it a new way that may be a winner.  Gamer method start position with magazine facing into magwell, but grab the gun with the firing hand so that my index finger is hooked on the charging handle, insert mag as I'm lifting with my firing hand, immediately move support hand to handguard while shouldering, rack the bolt as soon as the support hand is in place (which may or may not be shouldered at that point), get the shooting hand on the grip as I'm aligning the dot on target, and I'm throwing aimed lead.  With some practice this might be the fastest one...

[telligentgunner]

On 12/15/2018 at 9:10 PM, cvincent said:

A nice little tip I’ve found during dry fire is if you stick something in the ejection port to hold the bolt back an inch and a half or so, the safety still works and the trigger works.
I use my plugg’r chamber flag inserted longways.


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Damn good tip! I keep bumping the bolt closed on drills and then have to setting it up again. Works with Glocks, why not PCCs?

Edited January 21, 2019 by telligentgunner

[jkrispies]

38 minutes ago, telligentgunner said:

 

Damn good tip! I keep bumping the bolt closed on drills and then have to setting it up again. Works with Glocks, why not PCCs?

I've been doing this for years, and it works great... till I started short stroking and can't lock the  bolt back anymore, LOL.  You can also prop it open with a chamber flag, but I've found there's a point where you you can hold the bolt open but the trigger doesn't feel the same as when the is bolt is locked open.  That makes me worry about something rubbing wrong and causing wear, so I make sure the is bolt open enough that it does't have this uncommon feel.  

[rowdyb]

On 1/19/2019 at 12:17 PM, jkrispies said:

another thing to practice on the clock

So just goofing off, gun and mag on barrel, A zone at 10 yards. No fancy prop or mag placement, bolt forward.

2.01 seconds.