PCC dryfire

[Flatland Shooter]

2 hours ago, devilsdenguns said:

Also make sure you’re engaging the safety and then switching shoulders. 

 

 

Do most folks engage the safety when switching from strong side to weak side?

 

I do the switch a bit differently.  Strong hand to the mag well. Weak hand to the pistol grip. Extend the right hand onto the handguard (if needed).  On hard leans, I found leaving the strong hand on the magwell allows me a bit more angle.

 

Edited December 26, 2018 by Flatland Shooter

[2Alphamikenoshoot]

11 minutes ago, Flatland Shooter said:

 

Do most folks engage the safety when switching from strong side to weak side?

 

I do the switch a bit differently.  Strong hand to the mag well. Weak hand to the pistol grip. Extend the right hand onto the handguard (if needed).  On hard leans, I found leaving the strong hand on the magwell allows me a bit more angle.

Honestly, not sure if most do or not. I think its a good practice, when doing a larger slight more complex weapons manipulation. Especially moving hard into a position, you wouldnt want to pop one off early. Even if you bump the trigger with your left hand reaquiring the grip, the safety is on. Id rather be a .10 slower than get DQ'd. Thats my opinion. 
As for your technique as long as its safe, is efficient, makes sense to you, go for it! 

 

[Flatland Shooter]

19 minutes ago, devilsdenguns said:

Honestly, not sure if most do or not. I think its a good practice, when doing a larger slight more complex weapons manipulation. Especially moving hard into a position, you wouldnt want to pop one off early. Even if you bump the trigger with your left hand reaquiring the grip, the safety is on. Id rather be a .10 slower than get DQ'd. Thats my opinion. 
As for your technique as long as its safe, is efficient, makes sense to you, go for it! 

 

With practice I doubt it will cost you 0.10 sec.  Switch safety on while moving to position and flick it off with the weak hand thumb.  I just never thought of doing it.

 

As for moving the strong hand to the magwell instead of the weak hand, I've found that more often than not, I want to keep the strong hand on the magwell so moving it out to the handguard then back to the magwell is slightly slower.

[HoMiE]

1 hour ago, Flatland Shooter said:

 

Do most folks engage the safety when switching from strong side to weak side?

 

I do the switch a bit differently.  Strong hand to the mag well. Weak hand to the pistol grip. Extend the right hand onto the handguard (if needed).  On hard leans, I found leaving the strong hand on the magwell allows me a bit more angle.

 

I don’t flick the safety on when moving or changing shoulders. 

[HoMiE]

On 12/17/2018 at 11:25 AM, motherFNbrandon said:

for stages where a string might be freestyle, reload, then weakhand, can the freestyle portion be done on the weak side, so that no shoulder change would be necessary?

You can shoot freestyle from whatever side but always usually faster to stay on strong side.

 

and your supposed to keep your mag pouches fixed in position so it would be a little awkward to try and reload from weak side unless you have your equipment setup for that or practice it much. 

[rowdyb]

None of us have given many par times for our pcc dry fire drills. So I'll start with a couple for me.

 

Low ready and/or stock on belt (but muzzle not required perfectly horizontal) my par time beep to sight picture at a 10 yard simulated head shot is 0.50 seconds.

 

From dot on target freestyle then switch to support side shoulder and fire controls, dot on target at 10 yard simulated open target, 2.0 seconds. (for me this is a do it perfect par time, not just fling it out there and shoot with things all sloppy/speed first and only)

 

From dot on target, do a reload, dot on target to simulated 10 yard open target 1.70 seconds.

 

Unloaded table start, mag on table, bolt forward to dot on simulated 10 yard open target. 1.70 seconds.

 

(full disclosure. my pcc classifiers but for one( a 93%) are abysmal (mostly in the 50% range). i've let myself down with poor gun, ammo and equipment choices. all the dry fire in the world doesn't help me when i have/had guns that could not ever be counted on to shoot any number of rounds without an issue. I hope i finally have my mpx set up to be confidence inspiring reliable)

Edited December 26, 2018 by rowdyb

[Flatland Shooter]

1 hour ago, rowdyb said:

None of us have given many par times for our pcc dry fire drills. So I'll start with a couple for me.

 

 

 

 

Your low ready and off the belt times are smoking hot.  How do these compare to your live fire times?

[rowdyb]

Again, they're just dry fire times, so all it is is getting the dot in front of my eye, cheek weld i want and firmly into shoulder. This video is live fire from 6 months ago and I've definitely gotten better since then.

 

[jkrispies]

13 hours ago, rowdyb said:

None of us have given many par times for our pcc dry fire drills. So I'll start with a couple for me.

 

From dot on target, do a reload, dot on target to simulated 10 yard open target 1.70 seconds.

Thanks Rowdy!  I’m just starting USPSA dryfire training (but have done a ton for Steel Challenge) so this helps give me some baselines to work off of.  

 

Curious if anybody else can share some reload drills and pars?  I’m a lefty and working to get my reloads at least competitive with the rest of the world.  

[HoMiE]

It’s pretty hard to beat under 2 second unloaded  table start to a 10 yard target. 

 

Reload times of under 1.5 seconds are pretty solid but I can usually do around 1.7-1.8 in match classifiers. 

 

2 targets at 10 yards, target width apart, stock on belt start, 2 shots on each target under 1 second is tough, As only

 

blake drill in 1.4 is pretty smoking 

[rowdyb]

11 hours ago, HoMiE said:

It’s pretty hard to beat under 2 second unloaded  table start to a 10 yard target. 

yep, you're right

 

[HoMiE]

2 hours ago, rowdyb said:

yep, you're right

 

Try it with gun laying other side, ejection port side down, so when you get hand on grip you don’t have to rotate to insert mag as much and then rotate to get back up on target. It’s more like a lift gun to get it to your shoulder as your sticking mag. Then it’s easier to rack as you have it against shoulder and should be confirming dot on target by that time. Nice job. 

[RaylanGivens]

On 12/25/2018 at 10:00 PM, rowdyb said:

None of us have given many par times for our pcc dry fire drills. So I'll start with a couple for me.

 

Low ready and/or stock on belt (but muzzle not required perfectly horizontal) my par time beep to sight picture at a 10 yard simulated head shot is 0.50 seconds.

 

Thanks for your dry fire times and videos, Rowdy...  Very helpful!

 

I'm working on my stock-on-belt starts because we use them a lot in matches...  I've been tilting the front (barrel end) up and then swinging the stock up and firing, but must of my first shots are in the 1 second zone...  Your video shows you holding the rifle horizontal and lifting it up and firing much faster...  Do you think it's faster to hold the rifle horizontal or were you just practicing it that way because match WSB's require it?

 

When I try to go fast from a stock-on-the-belt start, I have trouble getting the stock in the correct place every time...  Wondering if holding the rifle horizontal would help.

 

[HoMiE]

27 minutes ago, RaylanGivens said:

 

Thanks for your dry fire times and videos, Rowdy...  Very helpful!

 

I'm working on my stock-on-belt starts because we use them a lot in matches...  I've been tilting the front (barrel end) up and then swinging the stock up and firing, but must of my first shots are in the 1 second zone...  Your video shows you holding the rifle horizontal and lifting it up and firing much faster...  Do you think it's faster to hold the rifle horizontal or were you just practicing it that way because match WSB's require it?

 

When I try to go fast from a stock-on-the-belt start, I have trouble getting the stock in the correct place every time...  Wondering if holding the rifle horizontal would help.

 

Holding the gun horizontal is much faster for me since you see the sight come into  target sooner vs stock on  belt with muzzle pointing upwards. I had some trouble with at first trying to get below 0.6 first shots but it helps if you shorten up the stock if you have adjustable. If helps to dryfire if you have a laser and watch to make sure you don’t scoop or porpoise. 

[zzw26n]

On 12/15/2018 at 10:30 PM, MemphisMechanic said:

PCC is... long open.

 

Way too many guys are doing the “sprint and stop” in four positions like they’re shooting a production gun. Move whenenver you can. Practice gliding across ports and shooting while moving fairly quick. You have a rifle. Press that advantage.  

 

You didn’t mention table starts. Get really, really good at unloaded starts from the belt and off a table. A lot of us have blown one of those pretty badly.

 

Switching shoulders, too. Both in classifer flatfooted scenarios, and on the move to a corner with a really hard lean. I’m a lefty and locally we have lots of tight righthanded leans. I got pretty good at swapping shoulders, so it’s amusing now to watch the righties who don’t work on it.

 

 

This is everything I did wrong in the beginning - nice write up.

[dmshozer1]

On 12/17/2018 at 2:25 PM, motherFNbrandon said:

for stages where a string might be freestyle, reload, then weakhand, can the freestyle portion be done on the weak side, so that no shoulder change would be necessary?

Unless you practice it a lot the reload would slow you down.

At least for me.

[rowdyb]

6 hours ago, HoMiE said:

ejection port side down

i do it that way because my pistol table starts are in the same orientation. gives me a certain continuity as i'm not a pcc specialist

 

5 hours ago, RaylanGivens said:

WSB's require

i do it because i see it it. i like to practice all the variations of something, especially starts. as far as fastest outright i think for me it is a low ready/aimed at target base sort of thing. like i shoot the first plate for smoke n hope in steel challenge in 0.40 something with pcco.

 

for consistency and speed two things have helped me. as i think of this as basically a "draw" so as with a pistol as my support hand is further away it has to travel a further distance so it needs to be moving much faster than my other hand. so i put attention into moving that hand fast as possible. secondly i know exactly where the stock should hit my check. to me this is my "grip" out of the holster equivalent. if you dont hit high on the beavertail it sucks. same with my cheek weld. it has to be where i want it, every time. third and finally the gun has to come out/away just the tiniest bit. i don't just drag the stock straight up to my shoulder. there is of course majority up but there is also a little out so i can slot it back into me where i want it.

 

i should probably do a pcc dry fire video for my youtube channel...

[George16]

2 hours ago, rowdyb said:

i do it that way because my pistol table starts are in the same orientation. gives me a certain continuity as i'm not a pcc specialist

 

i do it because i see it it. i like to practice all the variations of something, especially starts. as far as fastest outright i think for me it is a low ready/aimed at target base sort of thing. like i shoot the first plate for smoke n hope in steel challenge in 0.40 something with pcco.

 

for consistency and speed two things have helped me. as i think of this as basically a "draw" so as with a pistol as my support hand is further away it has to travel a further distance so it needs to be moving much faster than my other hand. so i put attention into moving that hand fast as possible. secondly i know exactly where the stock should hit my check. to me this is my "grip" out of the holster equivalent. if you dont hit high on the beavertail it sucks. same with my cheek weld. it has to be where i want it, every time. third and finally the gun has to come out/away just the tiniest bit. i don't just drag the stock straight up to my shoulder. there is of course majority up but there is also a little out so i can slot it back into me where i want it.

 

i should probably do a pcc dry fire video for my youtube channel...

This is a very nice analogy and comparison against a pistol draw. I’m just a beginner in PCC and I’m thankful for all your tips and videos. They’re a great source of info and when you break it down like this, it makes it simple and easier to understand.

 

I’ll be incorporating all of these in my dry fire to improve my PCC skills.

 

Just an aside, I shot my first PCC match last Saturday with my 8” Gen 2 MPX and  placed 13th out of 48 shooters. Not bad in my book but I need a lot of improvement. 

 

Thank you very much for taking your time making and posting your videos for us to learn from.

Edited December 27, 2018 by George16

[MemphisMechanic]

8 hours ago, RaylanGivens said:

When I try to go fast from a stock-on-the-belt start, I have trouble getting the stock in the correct place every time...  Wondering if holding the rifle horizontal would help.

 

 

Take your final sight picture with a proper cheekweld at “make ready” then flip her on safe and relocate the stock to belt.

 

Don’t move your head.

 

At the beep, snap the stock back where it was. I hit my cheek rather forcefully and then drive it back against my shoulder hard and break the shot.

 

A key component in this is being a guy who braces the rifle below the dominant eye on your chest, body square to target, and then just tucks the chin with a very slight tilting of the head. 

 

(If you’re stuck in the 80s and lay your head over 45 degrees onto a stock tucked into the  shoulder pocket, standing there with a crick in your neck will be a bit weird.)

[jkrispies]

41 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

(If you’re stuck in the 80s and lay your head over 45 degrees onto a stock tucked into the  shoulder pocket, standing there with a crick in your neck will be a bit weird.)

Hey, hey now!  TJ Hooker taught me everything I know.  

[longbeard]

Lots of tools to use when it comes to starts. I switch out depending on distance and sight picture.  7 yards and under I use the muzzle pointed at A zone, and bring stock up to shoulder.  It's the equivalent of point shooting from a pistol draw.  Just lift up the stock and pull the trigger.

 

Longer shots/better sight pictures I keep a more level from the belt position and pull the gun up to the weld ready to shoot.  Make a mental note to keep the muzzle low and try and just put the dot right where you are looking.

 

Live fire.  15yd. head shot draw from belt:  .85 consistent is what I strive for.  Faster sometimes, yes.  Slower, yes...  Looking for my consistent time though, not my best time.  We can all sit out on a drill and run it 20 times to get a nice social media time (Guilty!).  Better to know what you can do cold.

 

10 yd. full A zone from belt .65 consistent. 

Index shot 7 yd. and under.  Muzzle pointed at A zone is slightly quicker. I never really practice it anymore.  

 

Above got to me GM by simply showing up and shooting classifiers.  Not much of an achievement in USPSA unfortunately. Although, better since the updates.  

 

An interesting exercise..  Practice laser hip shots and see what it takes to just hear the timer and pull the trigger.  Gives you an idea of reaction time.

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by longbeard

[RaylanGivens]

13 hours ago, HoMiE said:

Holding the gun horizontal is much faster for me since you see the sight come into  target sooner vs stock on  belt with muzzle pointing upwards. I had some trouble with at first trying to get below 0.6 first shots but it helps if you shorten up the stock if you have adjustable. If helps to dryfire if you have a laser and watch to make sure you don’t scoop or porpoise. 

 

Just tried dry firing both ways...  Lifting the gun horizontally does seem to make it easier to locate the target through the red dot...  I used to do that, but stopped because I thought I could move the stock up quicker when I kept the barrel pointed up...  I think that might have been a false economy as I could move the stock up quickly, but hunted a bit more to line up the first shot.

 

[RaylanGivens]

8 hours ago, rowdyb said:

i do it that way because my pistol table starts are in the same orientation. gives me a certain continuity as i'm not a pcc specialist

 

i do it because i see it it. i like to practice all the variations of something, especially starts. as far as fastest outright i think for me it is a low ready/aimed at target base sort of thing. like i shoot the first plate for smoke n hope in steel challenge in 0.40 something with pcco.

 

for consistency and speed two things have helped me. as i think of this as basically a "draw" so as with a pistol as my support hand is further away it has to travel a further distance so it needs to be moving much faster than my other hand. so i put attention into moving that hand fast as possible. secondly i know exactly where the stock should hit my check. to me this is my "grip" out of the holster equivalent. if you dont hit high on the beavertail it sucks. same with my cheek weld. it has to be where i want it, every time. third and finally the gun has to come out/away just the tiniest bit. i don't just drag the stock straight up to my shoulder. there is of course majority up but there is also a little out so i can slot it back into me where i want it.

 

i should probably do a pcc dry fire video for my youtube channel...

 

I'm currently concentrating on locating the stock in the correct place on my chest every time...  and then getting a good cheek weld...  I do some repetitions slow and some of them fast...  Doing slow reps seems to help me find the right spot more often when I speed up.

 

A video starting from the PCC stock-on-the-belt position would be great as this is where most of the stages seem to start.

 

[Acer2428]

FWIW I just started using an airsoft gun. It's a gas blow back, not a battery operated mini-gun like you see the kids running around with. It uses compressed LP gas to cycle the action, so you get some semblance of recoil, noise, etc. AND it's accurate enough for feedback. I use it in my basement from 3-10 yards and use a foam backer behind it to keep from denting the walls. 

 

So far I really like it. Only downside it trigger is different, but it appears to take normal AR rails. I bought mine w/ a 15" rail similar to the original AR-9 PCC I was running before I swapped over to an MPX. I bought a $25 Pinty optic on Amazon that has the same reticle as my 510c. I'm enjoying it so far, although I can't get the timer to pick it up. 

[andrewt556]

On 12/28/2018 at 9:26 AM, Acer2428 said:

FWIW I just started using an airsoft gun. It's a gas blow back, not a battery operated mini-gun like you see the kids running around with. It uses compressed LP gas to cycle the action, so you get some semblance of recoil, noise, etc. AND it's accurate enough for feedback. I use it in my basement from 3-10 yards and use a foam backer behind it to keep from denting the walls. 

 

So far I really like it. Only downside it trigger is different, but it appears to take normal AR rails. I bought mine w/ a 15" rail similar to the original AR-9 PCC I was running before I swapped over to an MPX. I bought a $25 Pinty optic on Amazon that has the same reticle as my 510c. I'm enjoying it so far, although I can't get the timer to pick it up. 

Can you share the model you bought with me