Are all lubricants created equal?

[Sarge]

37 minutes ago, NbX said:

Frogoube all the year !

Surely you jest I hope. Froglube is proven garbage.

[RangerTrace]

14 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Surely you jest I hope. Froglube is proven garbage.

Absolutely

[Ming the Merciless]

13 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Surely you jest I hope. Froglube is proven garbage.

 

You are correct, there's actually quite a bit of Froglube  Crisco in my garbage, along with the egg shells, and pancake bits after breakfast.

 

 

 

[Shadyscott999]

1 hour ago, NbX said:

Frogoube all the year !

I don't know if this comment is funny or sad.  

 

[MemphisMechanic]

I use the best stuff out there. It’s called Whatever Free Sample I Snagged off a Prize .

Table.

 

The stuff is amazing.

 

When I’m out of that? Mobil 1 and/or some high temp red synthetic grease, as applicable.

 

Just lube before each match and clean it every few thousand rounds (or months) and any  decent gun will run just fine.

[jkrispies]

48 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

I use the best stuff out there. It’s called Whatever Free Sample I Snagged off a Prize Table.

[MemphisMechanic]

Ten years ago, @jkrispies, I got about forty tiny bottles of some  Brownells branded gun oil “with teflon” because they were leftover after an IDPA match.

 

That stuff lasted almost ten years. 

 

It’s just oil people. Use whatever is designed for metal-on-metal and you’re good

[mvmojo]

Mobil 1 - 0w-30.  Have spent a ton on proprietary "gun" lubes, including Weapon Shield oil and grease as well as Slide Glide.  I run light springs and all the greases give me problems.  Almost any of the oils work fine.  So, why not Mobil 1?  Good at all temps, recommended by Porsche for all their engines, including when raced.  Gotta think a Porsche engine undergoes a lot more wear and tear than a 2011 slide!  So, Mobil 1 it is.

[mpom]

Rotella T6 5-40. Why? Cause I bought a gallon and the bike takes 3 quarts

 

Mark

Edited January 14, 2019 by mpom
Spelling

[Jfitz427]

I use slip 2000, it’s great stuff. I used to use rem oil, the yellow cap stuff. Back when I used to primarily shoot ARs which get really hot and really dirty. And I’d oil it up before shooting and the rem oil would be gone by the time I was done. No malfunctions or anything, but I doubt I could go more then one session without re oiling it. Then my BCM came with a little thing of slip 2000. And I could run a few hundred rounds though it and it would still be there. I love the stuff. Not to thick and not to thin. Works great for all my pistols and rifles. I’m interested in Brian’s slide glide though. Even though it’s not like it can get any better. I like to experiment and tinker. 

[guns_and_labs]

I use Weapon Shield because of the really cool destructive testing videos. I have no idea if it makes a difference, but they annoy the s**t out of all the other lube guys, so it must be good. And my guns always run, so that's good too. I have Slide Glide, too, but it's used more on my rifles.

[BallisticianX]

With todays lubrication chemistry I think most firearm specific oils provide ample lubrication. Ive used many over the years and only encountered a few I avoid. One is Ballistol on friction/moving applications. Ballistol is the best for corrosion prevention as a surface protectant but not on moving parts. The two I used most is M-Pro 7 and Lucas extreme duty oil. Both leave a good film on parts after firing 100+ rounds and doesnt evaporate off. As long as your oil doesnt "disappear" during a healthy day of shooting its fine. I tend to use the Lucas more now as in my AR platform its seems to be more "wet" after an outing than anything else Ive used. Recently here in the winter months in the Northeast Ive been shooting as much as I can. In temps as low as 18 degrees Ive not noticed any gumming or problems from the Lucas nor previously from M-Pro 7.  

Edited January 18, 2019 by BallisticianX

[Heatstroke18]

I have since switched to a grease over an oil lubricant and I’m generally pleased. I have noticed that the grease stays longer and runs cleaner.  The only downfall I have come across is with sandy bays at my range.  If it’s really dry out after some 3-4 hundred rounds and dropping mags in the sand the sand gets into the gun and makes it feel gritty, were oil didn’t do that.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Heatstroke18

[BallisticianX]

19 hours ago, Heatstroke18 said:

I have since switched to a grease over an oil lubricant and I’m generally pleased. I have noticed that the grease stays longer and runs cleaner.  The only downfall I have come across is with sandy bays at my range.  If it’s really dry out after some 3-4 hundred rounds and dropping mags in the sand the sand gets into the gun and makes it feel gritty, were oil didn’t do that.

I prefer oils over grease. My feeling is Grease attracts grit and is trapped in it and carried through it repeatedly. Oils and the liquid characteristics are able to flush away grit. Dirt/sand is much more damaging in an action that the combustion soot thats a given to be in there. So i refrain from grease to not add increased levels of outside elements getting trapped in my guns. Also grease in cold weather will gum whereas good oil wont. I also like the advantages of oil in it creeps into tight clearances to provide lubrication where grease cant.  

[mvmojo]

I use fairly light springs in my guns and every time I've tried a grease, even Slide-Glide, it creates enough drag that the gun won't cycle properly.  I've tried putting it on as thin as I can, and I shoot in Florida so it's not the cold.  I guess it's just that the guns are tight and the viscosity of the grease is too much for the light recoil springs.  This has happened in 1911's, 2011's and Volquartsen/Ruger .22's.  Seems to work OK in my Glocks but I haven't changed the springs in them and they're certainly not "tight" guns!

[Heatstroke18]

Living down in the south, there is not much cold weather shooting that I tend to do.  Most of the matches I shoot are of the weeknight indoor type. Ocassionally when I get a weekend off I’ll shoot an outdoor match. That’s what leaned me toward grease over oil. 

[Absocold]

Anyone using lube that was designed more than 25 years ago and not taking advantage of modern technology is a fool. May as well lube your junk with bear fat or goose grease. Old ways are best! Right?

 

And anyone using the latest and greatest superlube to come down the pike is likewise doing themselves a disservice. Too many times we've later found out that the stuff is pure snake oil (*cough* fireclean froglube *cough*). If it's so awesome, why isn't the military buying it?

 

Here's just a few of the things you want from a gun lube that I can think of off the top of my head:

 

High lubricity.

High temperature resistance.

High flash point.

Thermal stability.

Low oxidation.

Moisture barrier.

High demulsibility or non-hygroscopic.

Planar and non-polar.

Thin film thickness.

Low viscosity.

High heat transfer.

(greases are bad at the last three)

 

And you want it to do all this even after it dries!

 

And for those of you that think any sort of motor oil is a great idea, check its Material Safety Data Sheet. For example, Mobil 1's MSDS says don't get the stuff on you. Period. Full stop. Don't touch it. And if you get any inside your skin from a cut or something, seek a physician immediately for possible surgical treatment. But sure, slather it all over your gun. That you handle. With your bare hands. Brilliant.

 

Now maybe you start to understand why I just go with whatever the military is using. They've spent millions of dollars testing gun lubes from tons of companies that have spent a lot of of money designing gun lubes and then picked out some winners. Many of the lubes they use do all of the above and also have detergents built in so you don't need a separate solvent for cleaning. Take full advantage of all that time, effort and money spent. I don't care which one you use, but I highly advise that you use one of them.

[Joe4d]

Retired in 08,,, Breakfree was still winning the Army tests,   Googled to see what they are using now and seems they have developed some dry film lubricant, anyone tried that ? Seems like it wouldnt float out carbon... However in dessert storm I played with dry graphite lube on a 231, and an M16A2,, seemed to work fine... although still needed CLP to clean it, just got parts dry as you could before putting on graphite powder.
Oh but bear / whale/ pig grease is still pretty good on Blackpowder as it doesnt make tar like petro oils,,, 

[ltdmstr]

Just because the military uses something doesn't mean it's the best.  The government procurement standards for this type of material typically are only that it meet a minimum level of specified performance requirements at the best price.  So there may be, and probably are, better alternative out there.  Doesn't mean the mil stuff is bad, just probably not the best.

[Service Desk]

I have still got some Vietnam era LSA lube... seems to lubricate OK. 

[Absocold]

7 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

Just because the military uses something doesn't mean it's the best.  The government procurement standards for this type of material typically are only that it meet a minimum level of specified performance requirements at the best price.  So there may be, and probably are, better alternative out there.  Doesn't mean the mil stuff is bad, just probably not the best.

 

You're thinking of normal government procurement practices and the all-too-often "lowest bidder" boondoggles that come of it. When it comes to gun oil, the military doesn't scrimp. The latest testing competition notice from the proving grounds makes zero mention of price or any sort of cost analysis, they simply wanted the best CLP available. They also didn't specify any minimum performance, they said they were going to conduct testing to see if there was anything that worked better than what they already had.

 

Long story short, they didn't find anything new that was better than what they were already using. They did find a new dry film lubricant that worked well in dry, dusty desert conditions and further development on this dry film *in combination with CLP* was in progress last I heard. There was news about this a couple years ago but nothing new has been published since then.

[ltdmstr]

36 minutes ago, Absocold said:

 

You're thinking of normal government procurement practices and the all-too-often "lowest bidder" boondoggles that come of it. When it comes to gun oil, the military doesn't scrimp. The latest testing competition notice from the proving grounds makes zero mention of price or any sort of cost analysis, they simply wanted the best CLP available. They also didn't specify any minimum performance, they said they were going to conduct testing to see if there was anything that worked better than what they already had.

 

Long story short, they didn't find anything new that was better than what they were already using. They did find a new dry film lubricant that worked well in dry, dusty desert conditions and further development on this dry film *in combination with CLP* was in progress last I heard. There was news about this a couple years ago but nothing new has been published since then.

 

Unless they're making a commercial item acquisition, they have to provide some parameters so interested parties know what to provide and how the material will be evaluated.  And cost is always a factor.  That doesn't mean they have to buy the cheapest stuff, but if they buy something that meets the requirements but costs more, they have to be able to justify the extra expense.  That's what the regulations require.  Re: the dry film lubricant, here's what was published in 2016 article at military.com:

 

The U.S. Army is touting a new and improved lubricant for small arms ranging from the standard M4 carbine to the M240 machine gun, officials said.

 

Unlike the conventional "wet lubricant" known as CLP (for cleaner, lubricant and preservative), the new product uses a dry surface treatment known as durable solid lubricant, or DSL, according to a press release on Tuesday from officials at Picatinny Arsenal in New Jersey.

 

The push to develop the new technology dates to 2003, when engineers realized soldiers were experiencing problems with weapon stoppages in sand and dust environments, including in war zones in Iraq and Afghanistan, if cleaning procedures weren't followed, the release states.

 

The new durable solid lubricant developed by engineers at the U.S. Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center, or Ardec, uses a dry surface treatment that's applied during the manufacturing process and has the potential to improve performance on any number of small arms while decreasing maintenance, according to the release.

 

Adam Foltz, an experimental engineer at the center, explained the differences in the technology. "With typical wet lubricants, soldiers need to reapply in order for the weapon system to function properly. Soldiers also have to regularly clean off carbon residue that builds up from firing and it can be tough to clean," he said in the release. "Our DSL has a high wear resistance and a low friction coefficient, so it's easy to clean off anything that builds up. You can use a steel brush to knock off any residue, and you don't even have to worry about reapplying anything."

 

Doug Witkowski, a project officer at the Weapon Software and Engineering Center, said soldiers will appreciate the improvement. "I know that it [weapon maintenance] is not a glamorous topic and when you're briefing, there are higher profile technologies being briefed," he said. "But this is a high-tech innovation and they [the warfighters] will love it, when they get it." After 15,000 rounds of live fire testing, Picatinny engineers studied bolt and bolt carriers to understand the wear difference between using a standard liquid lubricant (right) and a durable solid lubricant. The standard lubricant showed a complete loss of phosphate on approximately 75 percent of the bolt carrier and 90 percent of the bolt. However, the durable solid lubricant showed less than 5 percent wear on the bolt and bolt carrier.

[igolfat8]

On 1/18/2019 at 12:00 AM, guns_and_labs said:

I use Weapon Shield because of the really cool destructive testing videos. I have no idea if it makes a difference, but they annoy the s**t out of all the other lube guys, so it must be good. And my guns always run, so that's good too. I have Slide Glide, too, but it's used more on my rifles.

Any skilled tribologist can manipulate a Falex machine to skew test results. The guy is a phony and so is his cinnamon scented / masked FP1 oil. He’s laughing all the way to the bank. Shame on him!

[zzt]

Personally, I don't care what Weapon Shield is made from.  It works better than any of the dozen other lubes I've tried.  In cold weather I can get between one and one and a half stages with my Open (depending on lube used) guns before I start to get stove pipes.  With WS I can go an entire six stage match.  In fact, I was at shot 300 in the last monster match before I got my first stove pipe.  I also like their cleaner.

[rustychev]

On 2/5/2019 at 5:32 AM, Absocold said:

 

 

And for those of you that think any sort of motor oil is a great idea, check its Material Safety Data Sheet. For example, Mobil 1's MSDS says don't get the stuff on you. Period. Full stop. Don't touch it. And if you get any inside your skin from a cut or something, seek a physician immediately for possible surgical treatment. But sure, slather it all over your gun. That you handle. With your bare hands. Brilliant.

 

That is not what the mobil 1 MSDS says not even close.  They do say avoid contact with used oil.  The part in red is sort of true but applies to high presser injection not getting some on a  cut.

 

What is dose say about getting one your hands is "No protection is ordinarily required under normal conditions of use."  and clean up for your skin is soap and water.

 

POTENTIAL HEALTH EFFECTS Low order of toxicity. Excessive exposure may result in eye, skin, or respiratory irritation. High-pressure injection under skin may cause serious damage.

 

 

Strait for the MSDS

NFPA Hazard ID: Health: 0 Flammability: 1 Reactivity: 0 HMIS Hazard ID: Health: 0 Flammability: 1 Reactivity: 0

 

SECTION 4 FIRST AID MEASURES

 

INHALATION Remove from further exposure. For those providing assistance, avoid exposure to yourself or others.  If respiratory irritation, dizziness, nausea, or unconsciousness occurs, seek immediate medical assistance. If breathing has stopped, assist ventilation with a mechanical device or use mouth-to-mouth resuscitation.

 

SKIN CONTACT Wash contact areas with soap and water. If product is injected into or under the skin, or into any part of the body, regardless of the appearance of the wound or its size, the individual should be evaluated immediately by a physician as a surgical emergency. Even though initial symptoms from high pressure injection may be minimal or absent, early surgical treatment within the first few hours may significantly reduce the ultimate extent of injury.

 

EYE CONTACT Flush thoroughly with water. If irritation occurs, get medical assistance. INGESTION First aid is normally not required. Seek medical attention if discomfort occurs.

 

Please dont spread miss information because you dont like something.  Having said all that used motor oil out of your car that thats a different story.

Edited February 19, 2019 by rustychev