2 stages in the same bay

[Balakay]

I have never been a fan of this situation.  After finishing one stage, staying hot and going immediately to the second stage. 

At a recent level II, I was the first shooter.  The first stage involved a double swinger and the second stage was somewhat easier.  Both had between 15 and 20 rounds.  I spent a lot of time visualizing the activation sequence on the first stage with less available time devoted to the second stage.  Inevitably, I screwed up the second stage.  2 Mikes and a procedural for skipping a target that I should never have missed. 

 

So, other than shooting and visualizing better, what are my options?  Do I have the ability to say I'm not ready to shoot the second stage immediately following the first? Or is this just part of the USPSA  experience?

[Maximis228]

 

Get used to it as this method is used to get more stages into some matches. This is "mostly" used on short/speed courses for the most part at majors.

 

Edited December 10, 2018 by Maximis228

[Rnlinebacker]

I have never been a fan of this situation.  After finishing one stage, staying hot and going immediately to the second stage. 

At a recent level II, I was the first shooter.  The first stage involved a double swinger and the second stage was somewhat easier.  Both had between 15 and 20 rounds.  I spent a lot of time visualizing the activation sequence on the first stage with less available time devoted to the second stage.  Inevitably, I screwed up the second stage.  2 Mikes and a procedural for skipping a target that I should never have missed. 

 

So, other than shooting and visualizing better, what are my options?  Do I have the ability to say I'm not ready to shoot the second stage immediately following the first? Or is this just part of the USPSA  experience?

from my understanding, if it's 2 entirely different stages than you can ask to defer. If it was a single stage with multiple strings then no dice

 

At Limited Nats this year there were multiple bays like this and they ran two shooters simultaneously rather than one competitor run both stages.

 

I myself would totally let you take a break as this format is mostly for the convenience of the squad finishing faster.

 

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[dapribek]

We have the same situation quite often at a local club, usually a short field course and then a speed shoot. It’s just part  of the USPSA experience!

[Balakay]

Maybe next time I will have to replace my C-more battery between stages.  

[Matt1]

Do you guys normally run them hot? Having two stages in a bay is common here as well but we vary rarely run them hot.


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[davsco]

as long as you (the shooter) don't have to immediately shoot the next stage, not a problem.  i did a match a while back where they were trying to rush folks thru and i went to the 2nd stage without a walkthru or even some time to think.  and of course that 2nd stage had a 3 shots per target vs the usual two and you can prob guess what happened...  my fault for not just putting my foot down and saying i wanted a few shooters to run the 2nd stage before me but still i think we shouldn't put folks in that position.  frankly it just felt like a 'gotcha' stage.

Edited December 10, 2018 by davsco

[JAFO]

My old club did it once - a short course followed by a speed shoot.  We went through ULSC after the first, and allowed for a short mental prep time for the shooter prior to MR for the second.  We recorded times immediately, but scored targets after both were shot (we were using paper sheets then).  I guess we could have left the shooter hot, but most people want to go through their normal MR routine and be sure they have a fresh mag.

[MemphisMechanic]

This is the one and only time I’m happy to see a boring and stale “port with 4 targets, port with 4 targets, repeat” kind of stage.

 

I think it should be expected of the match to make the second stage something extraordinarily simple to program if they expect  shooters to run them back to back. Whether it’s a speed shoot, or a 30 round field course... make it straightforward.

 

Edited December 10, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[Hi-Power Jack]

14 minutes ago, Matt1 said:

Do you guys normally run them hot? Having two stages in a bay is common here as well but we vary rarely run them hot.
 

One club I used to shoot at (actually two, come to think of it) ran two hot stages in the same bay

as a matter of fact - every weekend.   One club had only two bays, and ran two COF's on each 

bay.  The other Club had three bays, but wanted to run 6 COF's so they double up there also.

 

Worked very well - no problems at all.     

[rowdyb]

Lots of the level 2 matches I've been to in Florida do that. Most people just accept it and roll one to the other. And yes, it can be a disadvantage if you're first and not entirely prepared. Especially as the stage designer will often try to make up for a low round count speed stage by making it harder shooting.

 

Short answer get used to it.

[broadside72]

My local club often runs a classifier and a short stage in one bay.  Shoot the classifier and then either

1)(more often) essentially "prepare for your next string" or "make ready"  at the end of the classifier depending on the upcoming stage's start condition, then shooter and RO move to the second stage start. PCC slightly different

2) (less often) Unload show clear slide hammer holster, then move to the second stage with a full make ready process

[GrumpyOne]

One of the local clubs I shoot at only has 1 bay (very small club). We setup a stage, break up into 2 squads, everybody shoots the stage, then we modify the stage. Typically, we set it up with the hardest stage 1st (the stage with the most walls, props, etc.) then remove pieces of the 1st stage for the 2nd stage, and then remove pieces of the 2nd stage for the 3rd, etc. So, when we get done, there is very little left to tear down.

[pskys2]

1 hour ago, Matt1 said:

Do you guys normally run them hot? Having two stages in a bay is common here as well but we vary rarely run them hot.


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It is best to make both courses pretty straight up, no gimmicks. 

Sometimes if they are simple you can stay hot.  I'd not do it if the total round count went over 24, so 2 20 round courses makes for a 40 round stage with little time to add rounds.

NOT a good idea.  But I'm sure it's been done, and will be again somewhere.

[Trent1k1]

We do it at our bigger matches to get more stages in, and create some white noise for the shooter.  We usually have an unloaded start for the 2nd stage as most shooter ULSC as a habit.  The make ready is usually quick for the 2nd stage as the gun is unloaded.

 

We just had a match 2 weekends ago, and I got to go first, in staff day.  Both stages were timing with maxtraps (3 shots required) and swingers and drop Turner on the 2nd stage.

 

No one knew the timing or order, and after I shot, we all knew that wasn't the timing sequence.

 

Usually they are 8 to 16 round stages without a bunch of moving.  Just shoot the arrays and reload when needed.  Often we overthink stuff and should just shoot.  Don't think, just shoot.

[rustychev]

The Iowa sectional dose it every year but they run it. stage 1a walk thru every one shots it then 1b walk thru and every one shoots it. Its handled like two separate bays but set up in the same bay.

[Maximis228]

11 hours ago, rustychev said:

The Iowa sectional dose it every year but they run it. stage 1a walk thru every one shots it then 1b walk thru and every one shoots it. Its handled like two separate bays but set up in the same bay.

 

That is different than what is being described. You dont shoot back to back at Iowa, you just have 2 medium/field course set up in a bay because the club that hosts it only has 5 bays.

[B_RAD]

I had to do this at A4. I was first up. Luckily the stages were straight forward and simple. It wasn't an issue. 

 

However, I think in the attempt to be efficient or to save time, the shooter usually gets stiffed. At A4 they allowed 4 min thru walk through. There were 12 stages for the match. That saved a whopping 12 min over a two day match! The same with making the squad shoot two stages at once. That is more of a time saver but still. So far, all the ones I've shot like this have been very cut and dry so, it's not really been an issue but I'd be a tad annoyed if there were difficult sequences. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by B_RAD

[zzt]

Every club I shoot at does this.  One club does this because they wanted to have 16 stages at the match.  The other clubs do this routinely, because they only have five bays and don't want to 'waste' one on only a Classifier.  So they invent s short stage to put in the same bay.  After the first stage the shooter is told to reload if necessary and holster.  He moves to the second stage and makes ready after the command.  We never have the problem the OP complains about, because the Classifier is always shot second.  If you need a walk through for a Classifier, something is wrong.

[motosapiens]

When I've seen 2 stages in 1 bay before (like at nationals in st george), they didn't stay hot between them. The first shooter went first on the first stage, and someone further down the line went first on the 2nd stage, and they rolled through 2 at a time, so everyone had several shooters to visualize and prepare. 

 

I personally think it's lame to stay hot and do 2 stages in a row unless they are super straightforward, but as long as everyone is subject to the same buffoonery, there's no issue with competitive equity.

[Beef15]

I've seen it at lvl 1s here. Usually classifier and some little thing with 8-12 shots and very little if any movement. Usually stay hot, some ROs don't run it that way. In this situation I like it.

 

For something that needs a decent walk thru/plan it'd be less enjoyable, but same challenge for everyone it's ok.

[Hi-Power Jack]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

 

 it's lame to stay hot and do 2 stages in a row unless they are super straightforward

 

All the clubs that I've attended either go from a field course to a Classifier or very short COF,

OR they don't stay hot - everyone shoots one, and then everyone shoots the 2nd COF.

[Matt1911]

Make ready......

Are you ready?

 

NO! 

 

That's all you gotta say. 

 

[Balakay]

2 minutes ago, Matt1911 said:

Make ready......

Are you ready?

 

NO! 

 

That's all you gotta say. 

 

True but what i missed was the one final walk. There was no issue with competitive equity but after my squad saw me give away 40 points, they weren’t going to make the same bonehead move

[zzt]

And then after a minute has elapsed and you are not ready, you'll be told to show clear.

 

Running two stages simultaneously in the same bay is problematic, because shots may be recorded on both timers.  Around us it is almost always a simple stage shot from a shooting box followed by a Classifier.  It takes about 10 seconds to reload, holster and move to the second box.  Never a problem and I've never heard a complaint.