I can't tell a difference (9major loads)

[B_RAD]

I've been going back and forth, trying to decide if should start this thread or not, since I really don't think any perticular load offers any advantage over another. As long as the load is accurate and reliable, in my mind its not gonna matter which bullet weight and which powder you use. 

 

Saying that, we gotta choose something. Like most of us here, I like to tinker.....but I don't want to waste too much time. 

 

I've tired AA7, HS-6, Silhouette, WAC. I've tried 115 gr and 124 gr bullets. All around the 170pf.  I've shot some of each combo slow fire, rapid fire and at matches. Other than small differences when doing slow fire, I can't tell any difference in muzzle flip or how flat the gun shoots when shooting at speed. 

 

However, how dirty the guns gets and how much the case fills, is obvious. Since I can't tell a difference in any other way, I'm leaning towards WAC and Silhouette because of these two issues. 

 

Shooters are almost like superstitious ball players who have ritual type habits. They make themselves believe that something is giving them an edge when at least some of the time it's probably not. 

 

So, I guess my question is, can you really tell a difference?  If so, what could I be doing wrong that is causing me to not be able to tell any difference? I've only got about 3k rounds fired thru my CK thunder. Maybe after 10k, I'll be more sensitive?  

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2018 by B_RAD

[Maximis228]

Im the same way as you when it came to testing. Couldnt feel the difference between the loads, so I went with what was easiest to load. Which for me was a 124 JHP from PD with WAC.

 

People always harp lighter bullets with slower powders but I haven't seen a real different in felt recoil, muzzle rise, or dot movement. My grip affects all of that waaay more.

[B_RAD]

3 minutes ago, Maximis228 said:

Im the same way as you when it came to testing. Couldnt feel the difference between the loads, so I went with what was easiest to load. Which for me was a 124 JHP from PD with WAC.

 

People always harp lighter bullets with slower powders but I haven't seen a real different in felt recoil, muzzle rise, or dot movement. My grip affects all of that waaay more.

I'm going to go with same bullet and powder. 

 

 

I wonder if the reason we can't really tell any difference is because we're focusing on the correct stuff (e.g. spot on target) and not consciously thinking about recoil?  

 

And like you said our grip is doing more than slower powders. 

[Maximis228]

Everyone has their own set up they like. Those who are at the top of the leader board just train more and are better shooters.

 

Now que @Gooldylocks & @SSGJohnV on how I am dumb AF for not using 115s with AA7.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Maximis228

[zzt]

I think you may not notice a difference between powders because you are shooting a heavy gun.  WAC is the fastest powder I've used.  It woks better for me than HS-6.  HS-6 is slower and a tad softer, but the dot wiggles under recoil.  WAC is straight up and down.

 

Silhouette is a tiny bit slower than WAC, cleaner and a tiny bit more consistent over the chrono.  I prefer it to WAC.  I have 12 lbs of 3N38 that I bought when it was scarce.  I haven't tried it yet, because I still have 4+ lbs. of Sil to use up.

 

37.1/Major is waaaay softer in my gun than Sil.  I have a four chamber, 5-port comp, two 3/16" poppels in the barrel and a plastic grip.  The barrel ports bleed off a lot of gas, so the comp is not 'worked' as effectively.  That is not the case with Major.  10.2 gr vs. 7.2 gr makes a huge difference in the amount of gas generated.  It was so much softer that I worried it still made major.  It does.  It also shoots flatter.  My current plan is to use  the 3N38 for SCSA Open and Major for USPSA Open.

[B_RAD]

10 minutes ago, zzt said:

I think you may not notice a difference between powders because you are shooting a heavy gun.  WAC is the fastest powder I've used.  It woks better for me than HS-6.  HS-6 is slower and a tad softer, but the dot wiggles under recoil.  WAC is straight up and down.

 

Silhouette is a tiny bit slower than WAC, cleaner and a tiny bit more consistent over the chrono.  I prefer it to WAC.  I have 12 lbs of 3N38 that I bought when it was scarce.  I haven't tried it yet, because I still have 4+ lbs. of Sil to use up.

 

37.1/Major is waaaay softer in my gun than Sil.  I have a four chamber, 5-port comp, two 3/16" poppels in the barrel and a plastic grip.  The barrel ports bleed off a lot of gas, so the comp is not 'worked' as effectively.  That is not the case with Major.  10.2 gr vs. 7.2 gr makes a huge difference in the amount of gas generated.  It was so much softer that I worried it still made major.  It does.  It also shoots flatter.  My current plan is to use  the 3N38 for SCSA Open and Major for USPSA Open.

My gun weighs about 40 oz. Plastic grip. 

 

[Hi-Power Jack]

2 hours ago, B_RAD said:

  I don't think any load offers advantage over another.   I can't tell any difference in muzzle flip or how flat the gun shoots when shooting at speed. 

 

I also have been using WAC because it doesn't overfill the case, and my

only other experience has been with HS6.

 

I found that the HS6 with 115 gr bullets was flatter than the WAC with 124's,

but it had a lot of powder slinging going on during reloading.

 

So, based on that, I have to presume there really is some advantage to certain powders

(3n38 will make Major with documented, safe loads, as an example;  and some do have

less muzzle flip than others).

 

So, as soon as I run out of WAC (that's going to take a while), I am definitely going to 

experiment with 115's again, and different powders.

 

I expect there will be  noticeable  differences. 

 

BUT, what I have to determine is whether that  "noticeable difference"  translates into

improving my shooting to any significant degree (get me to a high B, from a low B?).

 

But, that is going to take some time to find out and I'm  looking forward to the process -

sounds like fun      

[Sneexies]

Wouldn't cfe pistol be better than autocomp for it's copper fouling properties? Since it also meters the same and produces the same power factor for the same grains?

[zzt]

S, it is not quite the same, but close.   It produces slightly less gas.  A couple of my friends use it for major because they got a good deal on it.  They like it.

[mwray]

Wouldn't cfe pistol be better than autocomp for it's copper fouling properties? Since it also meters the same and produces the same power factor for the same grains?

I thought it was the same powder already.

[Sneexies]

1 minute ago, mwray said:

I thought it was the same powder already.

That's also what I thought but with added anti fouling properties.

 

2 minutes ago, zzt said:

S, it is not quite the same, but close.   It produces slightly less gas.  A couple of my friends use it for major because they got a good deal on it.  They like it.

Yea my buddies also swear by cfe. Didn't care for it in minor, but I'm sure it's a great major powder.

[B_RAD]

12 minutes ago, Sneexies said:

That's also what I thought but with added anti fouling properties.

 

Yea my buddies also swear by cfe. Didn't care for it in minor, but I'm sure it's a great major powder.

And you've derailing the thread. 

[Sneexies]

5 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

And you've derailing the thread. 

Haha sorry

[B_RAD]

2 minutes ago, Sneexies said:

Haha sorry

[echotango]

21 hours ago, zzt said:

WAC is the fastest powder I've used.  It woks better for me than HS-6.  HS-6 is slower and a tad softer, but the dot wiggles under recoil.  WAC is straight up and down.

This.  For me WAC shot better than HS6.  I don't care how soft it is.  Fast(fast/consistent dot return) and flat is all I care about.  I tried HS6 several times and keep coming back to WAC.  Bill drill tells a lot also.  

Edited December 11, 2018 by echotango

[Gooldylocks]

23 hours ago, Maximis228 said:

Everyone has their own set up they like. Those who are at the top of the leader board just train more and are better shooters.

Facts. 1000% facts. The guys that are at top would be there no matter what they are shooting. 

 

23 hours ago, Maximis228 said:

Now que @Gooldylocks & @SSGJohnV on how I am dumb AF for not using 115s with AA7.

I shoot HS6 my dude. Clearly you are both wrong. 

 

Though AA7 is another good choice. 

[Maximis228]

21 minutes ago, Gooldylocks said:

Facts. 1000% facts. The guys that are at top would be there no matter what they are shooting. 

 

I shoot HS6 my dude. Clearly you are both wrong. 

 

Though AA7 is another good choice. 

 

See, I was wrong.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I would bet a LOT of money (a quarter) that No One (GM or D) would

change his/her rating by using the Best or the Worst powder in 

The World.     

 

Just personal preference, even thought some are "better" than others.

[iflyskyhigh]

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. You are all wrong.

Silhouette is the best. End of discussion.

Clean, cheap, good fill rate.

But if you don’t like silhouette the rest are okay too [emoji2957]


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[Hi-Power Jack]

    

[lacivilian]

I did some testing today out of my Chaos and found that 115s work better for me with AA7 and 124s with WAC. I couldn't tell much of a difference initially until I fired multiple strings with each load and two different loads in the magazine. The biggest thing to watch is how the dot rises and returns. AA7 was a hands down winner on returning while having less dot bounce once it returned. AA7 settled much quicker than WAC. 115s with AA7 were the quickest to get the dot back stable and ready for a follow up shot in my case. the biggest advice I would give you when trying to test 2 similar loads is go slow, have a game plan, take every note that pops into your head, and observe what you see. I didn't go shoot and see what feels the best, I shot my loads in order to see which one had the best performance. 

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: If you testing powders and loads you have to use the same power factor for all, same bullet, etc. The true test is with a timer and your hits on paper. As for the hit in the hand that is a personal feeling and some are better at feeling that than others. Are there hits any better with a softer feeling powder? Only testing with a timer will tell you. Bullet weight has alot to do with the recoil impulse duration. In the end it is what feels right to you and what somebody tells you the best load is  Thanks, Eric

[echotango]

Loaded up some AA7 to try and still prefer WAC w/115's.  Load was 115gr MG w/10.6gr and 121gr MG w/10.0gr both at 170-171pf.  3 3/16" holes. The big difference was shooting a bill drill.  Had the same result with HS6. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by echotango

[clw42]

I'm having a hard time even making major.  I'm currently loading some RMR hollow point match winners, plated, 124gr, 9mm bullets.  This is through a Czechmate with a throated barrel, loading to 1.165.  I've gone up to 7.4gr of WAC and I'm only at 1240FPS.  I also tried the Lovex that KneelingAtlas likes, and I've gone to 9.9gr of that and I haven't even broken 1200FPS.  I think I saw that he was using ~10 Grains over a 115gr bullet.  I do have some 124gr JHPs as well as some 115gr JHP's that I'm going to try also.  I just thought I'd use the plated bullets for load development to get me in the general neighborhood.  I don't know if they're really slow or what, but this seems crazy to me based on what others have posted.  The good news is that I'm not seeing any pressure signs yet with either powder, though I'm out of WAC.

 

As for the difference between the two, I do find the Lovex to be a bit less snappy, it definitely works the comp better in my opinion.  It seems as though there's less dot movement.  Better or worse dot movement, I'm not sure yet.  WAC, as others have said, seems to be up and down with little deviation from side to side.  I've only shot about 15 rounds with the Lovex so I can't give a solid opinion on the dot movement yet.  Need some more time under it.

[iflyskyhigh]

I’ve noticed in the past all things being equal plated bullets will run a little a slower compared to the same load in FMJ or JHP.

They may be just a hair undersized and slicker leading to less resistance down the barrel, leading to lower pressure and less velocity.

You’d think that less resistance would equal more velocity. But I hypothesize that the seal created by the stronger jacket of the other types of bullet allows the pressure to rise and the powder to burn more thoroughly creating more energy and thus more velocity.

No proof. Just a thought.

That being said I’ve had no problem getting plated HP’s and flat nose bullets to major velocities out of a G34 and G17 build open gun.


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