Blitkrieg buffer failure

[longbeard]

I had a 1" SS rod turned down to the same height of my Smalley.  Picking it up tonight.

I currently run a bolt with no weight, a super soft 147 @ 130pf, and a Blitzkrieg/Smalley combo.  I really, really like this set-up.  The dot just sort of jars, it doesn't move much at all.

 

However, I think there is something to be said for going heavier with a light load.  Experimenting this weekend.

 

I will say that in all of my tinkering, the biggest change comes from the powder charge.  That's why Im an advocate of 16" barrels.  It's a good .5 grains of powder difference from a 5.25" to a 16" barrel.

[Bwillis]

18 minutes ago, CalTeacher said:

Because it shoots considerably flatter than other buffers.  I keep a back up blitzkrieg so if one breaks I have another to use while my replacement is on the way. 

Do you use any spacers or just the buffer and main spring?

 

 

[Startingover]

7 hours ago, Flatland Shooter said:

 

I did some back of the envelope calculations and a 1" diameter stainless steel cylinder long enough to short stroke the bolt will weigh just over 3 ounces.  Add the 6 ounces for the Blitzkreig buffer and 15.2 ounces for the bolt with the weight still in it and you have a 24+ ounce system. 

 

Sounds pretty heavy considering we felt something around 18 ounces was ideal.

 

Do these numbers come close to what you have JsK?    What are your thoughts on a heavy setup?

 

Thanks.

I currently run a steel spacer in the back of my A5 tube to take up the extra length (with a 2nd wave spring behind it)

 

now I am wondering about moving it to the front of the buffer assembly?!?

[MoRivera]

2 hours ago, JZELEK said:

I'm curious.

With the apparent high amounts of failure with this buffer, why do most of you even bother with this product?

Is it that much better than the other more reliable systems on the market?

I also notice a considerable difference in 'jolting' when the cycle returns to battery compared to 'normal' type buffers.

[bwikel]

2 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

It’s the flattest-shooting combination I have tried in my rifle. 

 

I run a Guard so the action isn’t direct blowback and the bolt is much lighter. I run a wave spring, then a single quarter, then a 5oz hydraulic buffer for a .308, then a Sprinco red spring.

 

I run a very similar set up to Memphis except I run the 5007 bitz buffer with a Tubbs flat wire spring. I just went to a dedicated QC10 lower and currently using a carbine buffer tube  (I was running an A5 buffer tube) so with the longer guard bolt with the 9mm blitz buffer short strokes the system. I don't have a weight in my bolt so the combined weight of my bolt and buffer is about 17 oz. and the Tubbs spring I use is the reduced power version. I have been shooting PCC for about 3 years now between 3 gun, uml and uspsa. So far this set up has the least dot movement and softest I have run, and I have run about every combination possible. One thing I did change in this dedicated lower is I went with a Hyperfire 24c trigger so I am sure resetting those hammer springs does take more of the momentum from the bolt. 

Edited December 7, 2018 by bwikel

[Acer2428]

34 minutes ago, bwikel said:

the longer guard bolt with the 9mm blitz

 

Same setup I'm using in my wife's rig. Reliable and very soft. Only difference is I used a 556 rifle-length spring. Only thing that beats it so far is an MPX. 

[RaylanGivens]

11 hours ago, Flatland Shooter said:

"If you plan to run your gun in a short stroke manner, then we recommend this buffer with our PCC buffer weight which will add mass while shortening the stroke. Many shooters feel that this buffer with the PCC buffer weight is the softest running even with a full stroke 16" carbine."

 

Checked at the Blitzkreig website and I cannot find the PCC buffer weight.  Is it a chunk of steel placed between the bolt and the buffer?  (I seem to remember reading where Max L was experimenting with this).

 

I don't know if its even important or not but how can I tell which of the Blitzkreig PCC buffers I have.  (Purchased at the 2017 Black Friday sale.)

 

My Blitzkrieg buffer has "P/N RB5007" stamped on the side of it...  Yours might have the part number stamped on it, too...

 

The RB5007 is 3.96" long...  I seem to remember the earlier buffer to be shorter, but it is no longer on the Blitzkrieg web site.

[Acer2428]

I assume they meant not to remove the weight that's pinned in most 9mm BCGs since that would increase bolt speed. 

[echotango]

I prefer my bolt weight  in.  I run it with 2 plastic spacers(home depot) and a 308 spring.  Tried other buffers and prefer the blitz. 

Edited December 8, 2018 by echotango

[MoRivera]

1 hour ago, RaylanGivens said:

 

My Blitzkrieg buffer has "P/N RB5007" stamped on the side of it...  Yours might have the part number stamped on it, too...

 

The RB5007 is 3.96" long...  I seem to remember the earlier buffer to be shorter, but it is no longer on the Blitzkrieg web site.

I have both the 5007 which is the longer 9mm model and the shorter 5000 which is intended for 5.56 carbines.  I use the shorter 5000 combined with a .308 carbine spring and a wave spring at the rear end.  Although the 5000 is lighter than the 5007 at 4.3 oz vs. 5.9 oz respectively, I still feel more jolt from the 5007 and just the buffer spring (it's too long to also include a wave spring) when it reaches the rear end of the cycle, compared to the lighter 5000 which is both 'padded' by the wave spring at the rear as well as shortening the stroke enough that it doesn't go way back of the bolt catch.  I tried a rifle-length .308 spring with the longer 5007 once (carbine buffer tube), and the buffer wouldn't go back far enough to reliably reset the trigger....like it was being too short-stroked or something.  Run all with bolt weight in.

 

Blitzkreig seems to only sell the 9mm versions, whereas Kynshot (which I assume is the original manufacturer) has all the other models.  Was an earlier version of the 9mm-specific model shorter?

 

Edited December 7, 2018 by MoRivera

[CalTeacher]

13 hours ago, Bwillis said:

Do you use any spacers or just the buffer and main spring?

 

 

A Delrin spacer.

[RaylanGivens]

23 hours ago, MoRivera said:

I have both the 5007 which is the longer 9mm model and the shorter 5000 which is intended for 5.56 carbines.  I use the shorter 5000 combined with a .308 carbine spring and a wave spring at the rear end.  Although the 5000 is lighter than the 5007 at 4.3 oz vs. 5.9 oz respectively, I still feel more jolt from the 5007 and just the buffer spring (it's too long to also include a wave spring) when it reaches the rear end of the cycle, compared to the lighter 5000 which is both 'padded' by the wave spring at the rear as well as shortening the stroke enough that it doesn't go way back of the bolt catch.  I tried a rifle-length .308 spring with the longer 5007 once (carbine buffer tube), and the buffer wouldn't go back far enough to reliably reset the trigger....like it was being too short-stroked or something.  Run all with bolt weight in.

 

Blitzkreig seems to only sell the 9mm versions, whereas Kynshot (which I assume is the original manufacturer) has all the other models.  Was an earlier version of the 9mm-specific model shorter?

 

 

Several of us are running Vltor A5 receiver extensions so we have room for longer buffer systems...  It's about 7/8" longer than the standard carbine extension...  It helps if you want to run multiple delrin spacer and wave spring combinations.

 

Check your trigger reset point...  Empty gun...  Pull the trigger then pull the charging handle back slowly...  Listen for the click...  That's where your trigger resets...  Continue to pull the charging handle back and that's the amount your bolt goes back past the trigger reset point...  I'm about 1/2" past the trigger reset point now and my rifle shoots well and is reliable...  Other people might be closer...  It depends on your load...  springs...  etc...  Lots of testing in the PCC world.

[MoRivera]

21 hours ago, RaylanGivens said:

 

Several of us are running Vltor A5 receiver extensions so we have room for longer buffer systems...  It's about 7/8" longer than the standard carbine extension...  It helps if you want to run multiple delrin spacer and wave spring combinations.

 

Check your trigger reset point...  Empty gun...  Pull the trigger then pull the charging handle back slowly...  Listen for the click...  That's where your trigger resets...  Continue to pull the charging handle back and that's the amount your bolt goes back past the trigger reset point...  I'm about 1/2" past the trigger reset point now and my rifle shoots well and is reliable...  Other people might be closer...  It depends on your load...  springs...  etc...  Lots of testing in the PCC world.

Yes I  was recommended the A5 in a similar conversation a while back and I may look into it.  I have also tried my current buffer spring + wave spring combo with a heavier 5.4 oz carbine-sized buffer, and it still 'jolts' when it comes back to close (even with interior weight movement) whereas the hydraulic has a more shock absorption when hitting the breech.  But the A5 interests me.

 

And yes I check reset dry firing whenever I put in a new trigger or buffer.  I think with the case I mentioned, it was an issue with the Rise Armament trigger group I had i there at the time, as that started to get finicky afterwards in another gun with more 'standard' setup.  But still, with the longer 5007 and a both a) a longer rifle spring and b) normal carbine spring and wave spring in the carbine buffer tuber, it was a real chore to even cycle the bolt back past the ejection port.  Whereas with the 5007 and just a carbine-length spring, it would get back far enough for both reset and lock back.

[Startingover]

On 12/7/2018 at 6:42 AM, Startingover said:

I currently run a steel spacer in the back of my A5 tube to take up the extra length (with a 2nd wave spring behind it)

 

now I am wondering about moving it to the front of the buffer assembly?!?

Here is their extra weight (spacer) that goes in between the Buffer and the BCG.

 

https://www.blitzkriegcomponents.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=R15015098

[RaylanGivens]

On 12/10/2018 at 11:56 AM, Startingover said:

Here is their extra weight (spacer) that goes in between the Buffer and the BCG.

 

https://www.blitzkriegcomponents.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=R15015098

 

Good catch...  I looked a few days ago and it was not on their site...  This appears to be what Max is currently using.

 

Funny thing is that it is exactly the same weight as the bolt weight that came with my Taccom Extreme 9mm Bolt...

 

[HoMiE]

16 minutes ago, RaylanGivens said:

Funny thing is that it is exactly the same weight as the bolt weight that came with my Taccom Extreme 9mm Bolt...

 

But this weight is in addition to the bcg weight, you don’t remove the bcg weight and replace with this spacer. 

[RaylanGivens]

4 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

But this weight is in addition to the bcg weight, you don’t remove the bcg weight and replace with this spacer. 

 

Yes... Removing the Bolt weight and replacing it with the Blitzkrieg spacer (that weighs the same) would keep the overall buffer/bolt weight the same...  That alone wouldn't provide any real value...  However, you could use the new Blitzkrieg spacer to also short stroke the bolt.

 

Most of the PCC shooters I know don't use the standard bolt weight...  This new Blitzkrieg weight/spacer makes it easier to test with and without the weight at the range...  you'd have to make an alternate delrin spacer to account for the length, but that would be easier than pounding out roll pins at the range.

 

[HoMiE]

8 minutes ago, RaylanGivens said:

 

Yes... Removing the Bolt weight and replacing it with the Blitzkrieg spacer (that weighs the same) would keep the overall buffer/bolt weight the same...  That alone wouldn't provide any real value...  However, you could use the new Blitzkrieg spacer to also short stroke the bolt.

 

Most of the PCC shooters I know don't use the standard bolt weight...  This new Blitzkrieg weight/spacer makes it easier to test with and without the weight at the range...  you'd have to make an alternate delrin spacer to account for the length, but that would be easier than pounding out roll pins at the range.

 

Make the deralin spacer so that the spring can compress around it, so that way you’re just limiting the travel and not adding to the preload of spring. 

[BartCarter]

This is Blitzkrieg's HD setup (RB5015HD) 

 

Quote

Our Heavy Damped (HD) PCC Buffer Model has stiffer hydraulic dampening and stronger return spring for high stress applications. For Pistol Caliber Carbine builds that need increased shock absorption. Can be used in typical PCC carbine builds as well as short-stroke systems, and for hotter ammo. This HD model is not recommended for short barreled builds since they do not run the bolt as hard and will get more effect from the standard model. This buffer model was developed to fill the need for stiffer shock absorption which is needed on some PCC guns. If you plan to run your gun in a short stroke manner, then we recommend this buffer with our PCC buffer weight which will add mass while shortening the stroke. Many shooters feel that this buffer with the PCC buffer weight is the softest running even with a full stroke 16" carbine.

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by BartCarter
delete auto icon insert by program

[RaylanGivens]

23 hours ago, HoMiE said:

Make the deralin spacer so that the spring can compress around it, so that way you’re just limiting the travel and not adding to the preload of spring. 

 

I'd probably go with a cut up, reversed standard buffer if I was going to go that route...

 

With no bolt or buffer weights, I run a lot of spring pressure...  I've been running a rifle spring until recently when I made a slightly longer delrin spacer...  It seems to shoot as well with a carbine spring as it did with the rifle spring, so I switched to that...  Would like to try one of the new RB5015HD buffers.

 

[HoMiE]

4 minutes ago, RaylanGivens said:

 

I'd probably go with a cut up, reversed standard buffer if I was going to go that route...

 

With no bolt or buffer weights, I run a lot of spring pressure...  I've been running a rifle spring until recently when I made a slightly longer delrin spacer...  It seems to shoot as well with a carbine spring as it did with the rifle spring, so I switched to that...  Would like to try one of the new RB5015HD buffers.

 

My pcc seemed to flatten out going to a 308 rifle spring from 308 carbine.  I have a 5015 coming to try out. 

[jackson923]

Wonder if they cover purchases made through Brownells?  I have the .308 flat coil spring with my buffer so hopefully I do not have issues.

[RaylanGivens]

6 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

My pcc seemed to flatten out going to a 308 rifle spring from 308 carbine.  I have a 5015 coming to try out. 

 

I'm currently using the JP 308 springs because they are supposed to be quieter...  Thinking about trying one the the Sprinco Orange 308 carbine springs...  They are supposed to last longer...  Will probably get another JP 308 rifle spring at the same time, as I have lots of rounds through mine.

 

Curious to see how you like your new RB5015HD buffer...  Did you get one of the weights, too?

 

[HoMiE]

1 minute ago, RaylanGivens said:

 

I'm currently using the JP 308 springs because they are supposed to be quieter...  Thinking about trying one the the Sprinco Orange 308 carbine springs...  They are supposed to last longer...  Will probably get another JP 308 rifle spring at the same time, as I have lots of rounds through mine.

 

Curious to see how you like your new RB5015HD buffer...  Did you get one of the weights, too?

 

I run JP springs as well and replace every 5k. I made my own weights. 

[longbeard]

My standard setup is weight-removed Taccom bolt.  308 Carbine, Original Blitzkrieg with a smalley. I shoot 130pf 147's.

I have zero complaints, and love this set-up.  The dot jars more than it moves.

 

For kicks, I made a 2.5 oz. short stroke weight like the new Blitzkrieg.  I put the weight back in the bolt as well.  The result was the dot moved up and to the right which seems typical of short stroking when it's not quite tuned in.  In this case I think because the short stroke is with steel there is zero give.  The smalley is stout, but it's going to provide a small amount of dampening. 

 

I suspect if you use the short stroke weight with the Blitzkrieg HD's increased hydraulic you will lose the one o'clock movement.  In other words, a light action with a smalley and blitzkrieg is likely similar to a heavy action with a steel short stroke and an HD.  I also suspect this heavier action and increased dampening is the way to go from a durability standpoint of the buffer.

 

Out of curiosity, I'm going to take my Taccom 2 stage set-up and use the weight with it. 

 

All armchair theories of course.