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telligentgunner

Open Glock question... 34 or 17?

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So I've already built a G34 Gen 4 minor open gun mainly to run in 3-gun with my open shotgun and rifle and to do classifiers in USPSA.  It has an SJC comp, KKM barrel, a 10lbs recoil spring, and stainless steel guide rod inside.

 

2018-12-01_21-07-31.jpg.b7e5a52c3e91b25ca7e6c981bb02351b.jpg

 

It ran good for the last half of the day today after I solved a magazine issue but I keep thinking it could run better.  I was running 115gr Federal from Walmart but my buddy suggested I try 147gr Fed American Eagle due to the increased power factor.  I don't reload so I need to stick with factory ammo for now.

 

My question is for you open Glock folks... would it make any difference if I built it using a G17 upper and barrel instead?  All the pictures I've seen of open Glocks have been G17s.  I don't mind the length of mine now.  The slide weight should be similar due to the cutout on the top but the barrel would probably weigh a fraction more.  Thoughts?

Edited by telligentgunner

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Welcome to the world of trying to make open guns work.

Compensators "screw with the system" when it comes to how the modified browning action works. The forces produced by the comp are directly at odds with how the gun unlocks. You will need to find the right ammo that works reliably with your gun. 

Generally the "hotter" the ammo is within reason the better it will work. Also pay attention to cartridge length. 

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I used to run an open Glock 34 for a long time and just moved to 2011s now. But mine ran 100%. It had a s3f barrel, carver 4 port (10 port) comp, uncaptured guide rod, 11lb for minor, 15lb for major. Slide mounted dot like yours, so the ejection port was factory specs. And it ran 100% with both major and minor loads. I had some windows cut in the slide which reduced weight, so maybe that helped me? Idk, not sure why you’re having problems, except the fact you aren’t shooting reloads. Even my minor  ammo was fairly hot. Buy some +p or +P+ and try that, then start reloading. So In conclusion I don’t think a 17 will just automatically run better then a 34. My 34 runs like a Swiss watch. 

2626CA7E-5D77-4A38-A66A-C2884A5D1D70.jpeg

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What he said^^^

 

I would only add ya need hotter ammo for a ported gun. I surely wouldn't bother with 147 gr . Have you chrono'd the 115 gr ammo you are using or been chrono'd at a USPSA match? I would be surprised if you are even making minor power factor. 

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Shooting an Open gun and reloading go hand in hand, but if you're not rolling your own yet, you can try commercially manufactured 9 major from Everglades (http://www.evergladesammo.com/9mm-major-power-factor-124gr-jhp-ammo-new.html) or Atlanta Arms (https://atlantaarms.com/products/9mm-major-147gr-jhp-elite.html)

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4 hours ago, Jfitz427 said:

And it ran 100% with both major and minor loads. I had some windows cut in the slide which reduced weight, so maybe that helped me?

 

No issues with major beating up the sight and causing it to fail?  I was looking at an open 2011 from Atlas Gunworks but they suggest not putting slide ride optics on major open guns.

 

1 hour ago, JMike said:

Have you chrono'd the 115 gr ammo you are using or been chrono'd at a USPSA match?

 

Just used it yesterday. Don't plan on competing in any major USPSA matches with it. Only for what I mentioned above.

Edited by telligentgunner

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The slightly longer barrel on the 34 will help add FPS. once  their tuned in,  they'll run great.... 
I built  these 4 years ago, shoot'n 170-172 PF..  cheap way ta shoot on the Dark side and I love it !  You need to start reloading and use 124gr 

15675885_351921865188439_5026416739060672392_o.jpg

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13 hours ago, telligentgunner said:

So I've already built a G34 Gen 4 minor open gun mainly to run in 3-gun with my open shotgun and rifle and to do classifiers in USPSA.  It has an SJC comp, KKM barrel, a 10lbs recoil spring, and stainless steel guide rod inside.

 

2018-12-01_21-07-31.jpg.b7e5a52c3e91b25ca7e6c981bb02351b.jpg

 

It ran good for the last half of the day today after I solved a magazine issue but I keep thinking it could run better.  I was running 115gr Federal from Walmart but my buddy suggested I try 147gr Fed American Eagle due to the increased power factor.  I don't reload so I need to stick with factory ammo for now.

 

My question is for you open Glock folks... would it make any difference if I built it using a G17 upper and barrel instead?  All the pictures I've seen of open Glocks have been G17s.  I don't mind the length of mine now.  The slide weight should be similar due to the cutout on the top but the barrel would probably weigh a fraction more.  Thoughts?

 

I have run both. Have a 34 now I built very similar to the one in the picture. I use it for 3-gun and shoot minor. The 17 was built by Bobby Carver and I ran both minor(3-gun) and major USPSA. I went from the 17 to an 9mm STI DVC open major gun. Got tired of always cleaning mags after matches/stages and up-keep. Went to the 34 and have tuned a minor load for it & my PCC. I shoot UML 2x4 and regular 3-gun. Both make minor PF. The 34 is flat & soft with my load. 

 

I like the 34, but really liked the 17 better. It was faster for transitions and handling. Although haven't lost much with the 34. Both guns are totally reliable. Did not care for it for major. Never really broke anything, but everything loosened up. Too light for major, liked the all steel gun much better for major. But for reliability  either Glock is a good choice in my opinion for minor & 3-gun. Mags are cheap & reliable. Go to an all steel open gun for major.

 

gerritm

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zOrybrh.jpg

 

I built this in 2016, when I first started in USPSA.

 

Glock 22 upper. Glock 17 lower. KKM .357 Sig Barrel, Carver 4 port, Carver Optic Mount, Zev Trigger, Ice Magwell and FastFire3. Very reliable, don't ever remember any malfunctions. Did well with it in matches too. I have been shooting the 357 sig round since 1999 and had all the dies, brass, etc... So going this route was cheap, about $500. Currently switched over to a Czechmate in July 2018.

 

Load was the Montana Gold 125gr with 8.0 Power Pistol. Like a few have said, if you get serious about competition, your should invest in reloading, it makes a difference. Convert the Glock 34 to Open and get a Carver Frame Optic Mount.

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4 hours ago, telligentgunner said:

 

No issues with major beating up the sight and causing it to fail?  I was looking at an open 2011 from Atlas Gunworks but they suggest not putting slide ride optics on major open guns.

I didn’t have any problems, but I’m sure with more rounds it would have failed at some point. I probably shot it for 6k like that. 

 

I rewlly like the frame mounted  dot though now. I’d never go back to slide mounted. Although slide mounted does have a few advantages. Keeping the sight Very close to the bore axis, and no mount for brass to get caught up in. 

 

But even my “minor” loads I shot though it were pretty hot. My major load was 7.5g hs-6 with a 124, and my minor load was around 6.5g hs-6. 

 

Like others said forget about 147g loads with an compd gun.Federals old white box JHP is really cheap and it’s +p+. I’d try some of this, not quite major, but really hot. With a 10-11lb recoil spring this should run great. It says 1300fps. Idk if I believe that, but it’s hot. https://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal-law-enforcement-9mm-luger-ammo-115-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-xm9001-p-57630.aspx

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2 hours ago, gerritm said:

. Did not care for it for major. Never really broke anything, but everything loosened up. Too light for major, liked the all steel gun much better for major. But for reliability  either Glock is a good choice in my opinion for minor & 3-gun. Mags are cheap & reliable. Go to an all steel open gun for major

Man, after moving to a 2011 the open Glock kinda feels like a grenade ready to go off. It’s kinda scary now. Way to light. I know what you mean about stuff getting loose. After just a mag or two my pins would walk halfway out. The only thing I ever broke was a trigger return spring though. 

 

I still am a big Glock fan even though I shoot 2011s now. The stis are great for most competition, but for everything else, glocks rule. 

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Thanks for all the great info. 

 

Now let's talk about open minor load data for when I decide to reload myself...  Please share load data (bullet weight, powder, measurements, etc.) that worked for you for open minor.

 

4 hours ago, ickus said:
You need to start reloading and use 124gr

 

Powder and measurements?

 

22 minutes ago, Jfitz427 said:

my minor load was around 6.5g hs-6.

 

I don't reload so that is Hodgdon HS6 smokeless powder?  And a 124gr bullet too?

 

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Depends what kind of minor you want. For my wife I have two loads, 

 

147g blue ,bullet

3.5g unique 

1.145

 

or her favorite and this load really feels like a 22

147g blue bullet

3.0g titegroup

1.145

 

then minor for me

 

115g blue bullet 

7.0g hs-6

1.160

 

i still need enough omph to move the slide and especially work the comp. thing with compd guns is minor loads can feel snappier then major loads due to the lack of gas so the comp doesn’t work. I used to load around 4.6g unique behind a 124 before my open guns and that load in my trubor kicks more then my major load. Because there isn’t any gas to work the comp and keep the gun flat. 

 

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Unfortunately I don’t have much to add but would like to follow for minor load data.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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13 hours ago, Jfitz427 said:

Man, after moving to a 2011 the open Glock kinda feels like a grenade ready to go off. It’s kinda scary now. Way to light. I know what you mean about stuff getting loose. After just a mag or two my pins would walk halfway out. The only thing I ever broke was a trigger return spring though. 

 

I still am a big Glock fan even though I shoot 2011s now. The stis are great for most competition, but for everything else, glocks rule. 

This is what would happen when I shot major, all the pins and screws would loosen, even with loctite.

 

My 34 has a slide mount Vortex Viper which I broke trying some major loads, but they replaced with lifetime warranty. Most likely due to being under sprung, had a 11# recoil spring. Have gone back to minor. Load is 3.5grs Titegroup with 115gr plated RN @ 1.12OAL. This is the same load for my PCC for USPSA & UML 3-gun. Dot is flat and recoil is soft. 

 

I do miss my STI DVC, but the reliability and not having to worry about dropped mags & dirt is worth it.

 

gerritm

glock12.jpg

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3 hours ago, gerritm said:

This is what would happen when I shot major, all the pins and screws would loosen, even with loctite.

 

My 34 has a slide mount Vortex Viper which I broke trying some major loads, but they replaced with lifetime warranty. Most likely due to being under sprung, had a 11# recoil spring. Have gone back to minor. Load is 3.5grs Titegroup with 115gr plated RN @ 1.12OAL. This is the same load for my PCC for USPSA & UML 3-gun. Dot is flat and recoil is soft. 

 

I do miss my STI DVC, but the reliability and not having to worry about dropped mags & dirt is worth it.

 

gerritm

glock12.jpg

Ya an 11lb spring is definitely to light for major. That’s what I’d run with my bunny fart minor loads. I’d run a 15lb for major, although 13 seemed to be fine too. 

 

The cheap reliable Glock mags are just great. Although I’ve had really great luck with my 2011 mags. And I love the Dawson basepads for easy cleaning. Taking off taran glock pads are a pain in the ass, but they don’t need to be cleaned really ever. I’ve also had great luck with the reliably of my 2011s. My sps pantera limited gun has run 100% though 2500rds. The damn thing is as reliable as my Glock. I keep my guns in good shape though, field  strip clean and oil after every  range trip, sometimes I’ll go two trips. But I don’t think the 2011 would do as well if I didn’t clean it for a few thousand rounds, and the Glock would probably keep going. 

 

I always hear people say open glocks are unreliable. That wasn’t my experience at all. Mine was crazy reliable. With the right  recoil spring it was basically as reliable as it was stock. It just ran and ran and ran. I kept mine just Incase I ever decide to go back. Not sure if that will happen but you never know. 

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Another good minor load I like that can do a decent job working the comp is with unique. 

115g Blue bullet

6 grains of unique 

1.140

 

This load produces a decent amount of gas for the comp, and comes in around 145 pf. I think I chronod it around 1250 FPS. I really like unique, it’s incredibly versatile. I use it for 380, 9mm, 38 spl, 40, 45. 

Edited by Jfitz427

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Curious - how many rounds of 9mm will a 171mm (USPSA "big stick") Glock mag hold?  

 

What do you make them from? G34 mag plus somebody's mag extension?

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1 hour ago, teros135 said:

Curious - how many rounds of 9mm will a 171mm (USPSA "big stick") Glock mag hold?  

 

What do you make them from? G34 mag plus somebody's mag extension?

I use Taylor Freelance plus 10 with stock Glock 17 round mags and get 27 rounds in mine.

 

My Carver 17 open Glock was also very reliable as long as I tightened the screws up holding the C-More mount. Even then it ran just lost a little accuracy. . 

 

gerritm

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10 hours ago, teros135 said:

Curious - how many rounds of 9mm will a 171mm (USPSA "big stick") Glock mag hold?  

 

What do you make them from? G34 mag plus somebody's mag extension?

I used factory 17 round mags with the TF +10 extensions but actually got 28 reloadable and 29 to start with in my open 17. I also used the ETS 170’s for 27 rounds to start or 26 reloadable. 

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On 12/4/2018 at 7:28 PM, Wvaughn7 said:

I used factory 17 round mags with the TF +10 extensions but actually got 28 reloadable and 29 to start with in my open 17. I also used the ETS 170’s for 27 rounds to start or 26 reloadable. 

 

Can everyone please not assume that everyone knows what your abbreviations of brands, products, etc. mean? I have no idea what ETS is?

Edited by telligentgunner

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3 hours ago, telligentgunner said:

 

Can everyone please not assume that everyone knows what your abbreviations of brands, products, etc. mean? I have no idea what ETS is?

ETS = elite tactical system group, known for the clear translucent aftermarket glock magazines

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I too run a glock 34 open gun. It took about 10 months to build and tune to how it is now (due to constantly working)

 

i think all open glock shooters go through similar phases

1. "Im just gonna try open minor, see what the deal is about, plus its more cost effecient"

2. This glock is looking cool

3. Compensators and red dots!

4. Why wont it run?

5. 500 to 800 dollars later in parts, im selling this piece of ****

6. (After selling it) sigh... I miss that glock

 

 

or maybe thats just me.

 

anyway, i made a video of open glock tutorials and other things that i wish i knew before to help save me money and time.

 

most importantly, getting it to run. Main thing is the loads, you can get away shooting minor with it using 124 gr nato rounds, remington 124 gr from walmart and snipping down an 11lb spring to about 9 to 10. Thats very important.

 

if you want to shoot open major and have a higher success rate of cycling without reloading yet, i bought everglades ammunition online, major pf. It was the most cost effecient, i think 15 bucks or something. I kept my recoil spring to 13lbs. 

 

heres the video. It has footage in slow motion. I was practicing bill drills all day. Rapid fired 12 rounds with no hiccups. And showed my bill drill progress (unofficial)

 

https://youtu.be/_ZTzeDuSY-U

 

Its no 2011 but its a great introduction to tracking and chasing a red dot.

 

Here is a pic of it. Its a screen shot from my silicone carbide tutorial vid.

But like everyone says, go with a trusted barrel like kkm to shoot major. Try not to shoot major. Shoot minor with weaker springs. 

 

im letting this one go so i can move up to limited major.

 

CYMERA_20181208_165050.jpg

Edited by Jcgatus

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