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Who is in your "Mt. Rushmore of shooting"? Need some opinions!


Jcgatus

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If you need to make a video, then look for the most usable video of all the guys listed above and make your list based on video quality.  You could get the top 3 objectively right, and your video suffers because of lack of available footage.  Your teacher won't have ever heard of any of these guys, or be able to appreciate the inside-baseball reasons why one is better than another.  So, just make an exciting video for the uninitiated.  

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I think showcasing some of the vintage videos of rob and jerry are going to add a little bit more credibility to their resume. If i decide to go with Max, his videos of his days in the Army Marksmanship unit will also do the same. 

 

I get where you are coming from. But id rather get a b then get heat from the shooting community

 😄 

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Twenty years ago, when I saw my first video of Rob shooting an El Presidente, with a .45,

I was totally NOT impressed - he just turned, drew, fired six, reloaded and fired six more,

with all bullets in the A-Zones ….

 

Boring, anybody could have done it.

 

UNTIL, they showed the timer up close - less than 4 seconds.     :surprise:

 

Then I remembered that Jeff used to consider anything under 10 seconds

a good time  …..     :cheers:

 

The use of video is a great idea, but will need some explanation so

non-shooters will understand the greatness of what they're watching.    :) 

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Someone brought up Max only winning with dots. Thats just pure dominance then. He did win limited 10 a while back. 

 

With JJ's recent wins this past year, does he belong in the top 5? Although dominance is the topic, versatility deserves some props. 

 

So far, we have a good solid 3. Rob, jerry, and eric. Its looking like max is taking 4. 

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Maybe not Rushmore worthy but if we are talking dominance--Maria Gushchina.

Just heard about her on a podcast.  She is only 23 with 3 World titles. 6th overall at the last World shoot (98+ % of Ben). Beat the 2nd place woman by 24%. 

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39 minutes ago, OPENB said:

Surprised no one has mentioned Bob Vogel.

Bob vogel has one gold at the world shoot in the production division and 5 in the nationals (production and standard). Although we can not discredit his 30+ IDPA accomplishments, it's just not in the conversation.

 

But the main reason why i feel his name is not coming in the top 4 or 5 discussion is because Ben Stoeger's resume is similar. 1 world, and 7 nationals with 5 back to back.

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Grauffel - He's won every world championship in which ever division he decided to shoot since he was 19 years old. And I'm sure he's not done yet.

 

Leatham - His versatility, and dominance over the years. How many years in a row did he win the Single Stack Classic? Like a million or something. Probably the best iron sight shooter ever.

 

Beyond those two, its tough to pick. There is an appreciable drop after them. I think if using number of national championships, and versatility as a measure, Dave Sevigny needs to be in the conversation. He's won in multiple divisions, often times shooting what amounted to a service pistol against full on race guns, and he's done it with different platforms....he broke Leatham's win streak at the Single Stack Classic.

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Thought it was 3, now I see it's 4.

 

Add Doug Koenig, he is the man to beat at the old Masters and still at Bianchi, plus he's been Steel Challenge Champ and I'm thinking a World Champ at one point.

 

Jeff Cooper

Rob Leatham

Jerry Miculek

Doug Koenig

 

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It surprises me how many people underrate Todd Jarret.  Y'all need to look up just how good he is.  I didn't realize how good he is and how much he has won till someone brought up a thread like this a while back.  I wonder why he seems less well known from some other of these big names, since i think the only people with more across division titles is TGO and Eric G?  He his really the only other person in their realm when talking multi division nationals wins

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35 minutes ago, RJH said:

It surprises me how many people underrate Todd Jarret.  Y'all need to look up just how good he is.  I didn't realize how good he is and how much he has won till someone brought up a thread like this a while back.  I wonder why he seems less well known from some other of these big names, since i think the only people with more across division titles is TGO and Eric G?  He his really the only other person in their realm when talking multi division nationals wins

I don't think anyone is under rating him, its just that he falls in to the pack trailing Eric and Rob 

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2 hours ago, pskys2 said:

Thought it was 3, now I see it's 4.

 

Add Doug Koenig, he is the man to beat at the old Masters and still at Bianchi, plus he's been Steel Challenge Champ and I'm thinking a World Champ at one point.

 

Jeff Cooper

Rob Leatham

Jerry Miculek

Doug Koenig

 

This. Nailed it.

My $.02

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34 minutes ago, Maximis228 said:

 

Any other answer is just willful ignorance.

 

Pretty much.  For the past 20 years, everybody knew if Eric was shooting in their division, they were competing for second place.  

 

The guy hasn't lost a single match in almost 20 years.  

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The world shoot is the olympics of sports shooting. Its the biggest stage and comes around every few years. That is why the gold count holds a lot more weight.

 

Eric has 7 - 5 open, 1 standard, 1 production

 

Rob has 6 - 3 of which were earned before division, 2 standard, 1 classic

 

Jerry has has 2 revolver (but we all know the round count in nationals is absurd)

 

And Max has 1 in open. But he was the only one to garner steel, nationals, and world in one year.

 

No ones undermining what Dave, Todd, Bob, Brian, Travis, and everyone else has accomplished. The argument is simply dominance.

 

Ive listened to Racaza's podcast where he described his number one goal was to beat eric at worlds. Back in 14, Eric gave him a heads up that he is competing in standard and the gold for open was a "straight path". Instead, JJ decided to go shoot in standard and placed 2nd behind him. 

 

You know youre something else when people want to beat you instead of getting gold.

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50 minutes ago, Jcgatus said:

Ive listened to Racaza's podcast where he described his number one goal was to beat eric at worlds. Back in 14, Eric gave him a heads up that he is competing in standard and the gold for open was a "straight path". Instead, JJ decided to go shoot in standard and placed 2nd behind him. 

I believe 14 was production, but otherwise I agree totally

 

1 hour ago, Maximis228 said:

 

Any other answer is just willful ignorance.

Yes

 

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@Shadyscott999, @Maximis228, @d_striker, @MikeBurgess.... They are spot on. I would put Eric at the top of any podium in any division in any era ever. Take all the best guys ever when they were their personal absolute best, and I don't think anyone beats him. 

 

My top 3 would be 

  1. Eric
  2. Rob
  3. Horner or Jerry, hard to say. Both are dominant, Jerry is more multi-discipline though. It is very tough to argue with multiple WS and a whole pile of national titles plus some Steel Challenge world records tossed in for good measure, but Daniel crushes literally everyone and anyone (even the open shooters) without hesitation and without mercy. 
 

 

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On 11/27/2018 at 4:53 PM, d_striker said:

 

Pretty much.  For the past 20 years, everybody knew if Eric was shooting in their division, they were competing for second place.  

 

The guy hasn't lost a single match in almost 20 years.  

 

 

Vogel beat him at a pro am, not IPSC, but a loss none the less.  But yeah EG is pretty unbelievable

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6 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

 

Vogel beat him at a pro am, not IPSC, but a loss none the less.  But yeah EG is pretty unbelievable

It should be specified, he hasn't lost an IPSC/USPSA match at any level in like 19 years. Since the 99 WS I believe. He has shot some pro-am and 3 gun and stuff and not won but that would kind of be like if Daniel shot the USPSA handgun nationals and you counted it against his W/L stats. Not his game.

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Just now, Gooldylocks said:

It should be specified, he hasn't lost an IPSC/USPSA match at any level in like 19 years. Since the 99 WS I believe. He has shot some pro-am and 3 gun and stuff and not won but that would kind of be like if Daniel shot the USPSA handgun nationals and you counted it against his W/L stats. Not his game.

 

Agreed on the three gun, but pro am is a lot like IPSC/USPSA.  It really surprised me that he lost when i saw it, it has been a few years if i remember correctly.  He is so good seeing him lose anything action pistol related sticks out.  Vogel might have went home and gold plated that glock haha

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4 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

Agreed on the three gun, but pro am is a lot like IPSC/USPSA.  It really surprised me that he lost when i saw it, it has been a few years if i remember correctly.  He is so good seeing him lose anything action pistol related sticks out.  Vogel might have went home and gold plated that glock haha

He very well may have haha, I certainly would have put it up on the mantle. 

 

I just heard the best analogy for picking the person in 3rd while discussing this thread on FB: "The problem with using Eric as the yardstick, is that everyone else is a pocket ruler."

 

There are a lot of guys that would be in the running for 3rd, but it becomes so difficult to pick who would be the best of that group. Max Michel is an absolute force and has been for a number of years. Daniel Horner, as I said before, is the greatest 3 gunner of all time, bar none. Jerry has been murdering people in multiple divisions in multiple disciplines for longer than a lot of the current heat has been alive. JJ is a multiple time steel world champion, a WS champ, and probably has more 2nd place medals than anyone else in the game. Nils is a monster in any game in any division you put him in, and has a couple of Standard division world titles to his name. Vogel has a WS win and some seconds, plus a number of national titles and an IDPA record that is completely untouchable.

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