Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

Rollsizer vs CasePro


Recommended Posts

Ok, here is a logical question. What does it matter if roll sized brass reduces handle effort or not? The purpose of roll sizing is to eliminate the belly on the brass. Isn’t that enough to justify doing it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 258
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

42 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

Ok, here is a logical question. What does it matter if roll sized brass reduces handle effort or not? The purpose of roll sizing is to eliminate the belly on the brass. Isn’t that enough to justify doing it?

 

But so can't a good sizing die? I have used both and can't ever say that I have had a problem with feeding either. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually no, the full length sizing dies cannot go the full length of the case. Its called a shellplate. For most reloaders this is not a problem, but statistically most will have a few that fail to gauge or feed reliably occasionally. It comes down to a value call, how much you want to risk at a match and how much time you want to spend in time and cost for defective rounds? A rollsizer is not for everyone, but they do make better ammunition. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, mechanoset said:

OK, we have never done a technical or qualitative review on the handle load reduction, feedback from most manual reloaders was that it is reduced significantly. 

given the majority of the load on sizing is on the lower part of the case this is expected. I just cannot quote a % reduction.

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

Ok, here is a logical question. What does it matter if roll sized brass reduces handle effort or not? The purpose of roll sizing is to eliminate the belly on the brass. Isn’t that enough to justify doing it?

Yeah, its reason enough. It was just a curiosity thing and if it does reduce effort its something that could help sway me into getting one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

Ok, here is a logical question. What does it matter if roll sized brass reduces handle effort or not? The purpose of roll sizing is to eliminate the belly on the brass. Isn’t that enough to justify doing it?

 

That would depend on the dies being at SAAMI max or min.

 

Minimum could show a slight decrease in effort, whereas max may not show any decrease.

 

On a personal not, it really doesn't matter, what matters is the feeding of the loaded round into the chamber.  The difference between completing a stage/match or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RePete said:

 

That would depend on the dies being at SAAMI max or min.

 

Minimum could show a slight decrease in effort, whereas max may not show any decrease.

 

On a personal not, it really doesn't matter, what matters is the feeding of the loaded round into the chamber.  The difference between completing a stage/match or not.

 

That was my point. Who cares if the reloading effort is easier or harder if roll sizing the brass makes higher quality ammo that is much less likely to fail when shooting. It doesn't take many crappy ammo jams in major matches to justify roll sizing or push through sizing brass. We spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars traveling to major matches. One way to preserve that investment is to roll size or push through size your brass so you don't throw away a match performance due to jams. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

That was my point. Who cares if the reloading effort is easier or harder if roll sizing the brass makes higher quality ammo that is much less likely to fail when shooting. It doesn't take many crappy ammo jams in major matches to justify roll sizing or push through sizing brass. We spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars traveling to major matches. One way to preserve that investment is to roll size or push through size your brass so you don't throw away a match performance due to jams. 

Push through size still give me many failed rounds. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello: Using a sizing die still can shorten the brass if reloaded many times. I use a Case Pro and size the brass top to bottom and also the groove. When I reload the brass after going through the Case Pro it reloads alot easier on the handle pull in the Dillon press. Thanks, Eric

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, BigEar said:

Push through size still give me many failed rounds. 

 

Then you have other issues in your reloading process. Push Though or Roll Sizing isn't going to magically fix your whole reloading process. Attention to detail must be performed for all steps in the reloading process.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

Then you have other issues in your reloading process. Push Though or Roll Sizing isn't going to magically fix your whole reloading process. Attention to detail must be performed for all steps in the reloading process.

What I meant is once I'd used rollsizer I've got zero failure rates vs. push through size not 100% reliable to me :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Part of the problem with push through is the rim is larger than the ideal mid range case dimension (factory) size you want, add the fact that the case "Springs" a little when it is rolled, the push through will always be limited how far it can be squeezed. That said a lot of people do ok with them, they are very cheap but you still get % failures. It come down to cost and how much time do you have spare.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Avenida said:

according to ?

Me , based on thousands and thousands of rounds loaded over 45 years or so. I size and load using traditional methods. I gauge every round that comes off the press. Those that don’t pass get checked for splits then tossed in a practice bucket. They always work fine in my gun even after failing gauge. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sarge is correct. Rolling is totally unnecessary.  Just as cleaning your brass, swaging, trimming 223, etc... is all totally unnecessary. However, it seems doing those other steps can make a difference in the quality of your ammo. Loading 9mm i typically had a 94% pass rate through case gauge with mixed brass. After i started rolling that went up to a 99% pass rate. 

 

Rolling gives me higher fidelity ammo and i dont waste as much time inspecting ammo when im done loading.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Smithcity said:

Sarge is correct. Rolling is totally unnecessary.  Just as cleaning your brass, swaging, trimming 223, etc... is all totally unnecessary. However, it seems doing those other steps can make a difference in the quality of your ammo. Loading 9mm i typically had a 94% pass rate through case gauge with mixed brass. After i started rolling that went up to a 99% pass rate. 

 

Rolling gives me higher fidelity ammo and i dont waste as much time inspecting ammo when im done loading.

I get 99% or better with 9mm using a Hundo gauge. Loading with Udie. Not cleaning brass damages dies, so that's necessary. Swaging 5.56 is absolutely necessary unless you KNOW it isn't crimped. Trimming 223 can probably be skipped but why would you? Eventually it won't pass gauge. The object is to make ammo that is high quality and will chamber and fire in your guns. That can easily be done without dumping a bunch of money into a roll sizer.

  Now if one wants to argue they WANT a roll sizer then by all means get one. But they certainly are not needed. Just like a bullet feeder in my opinion. I wanted one and I got one but it is a luxury for the vast majority of us shooters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

I get 99% or better with 9mm using a Hundo gauge. Loading with Udie. Not cleaning brass damages dies, so that's necessary. Swaging 5.56 is absolutely necessary unless you KNOW it isn't crimped. Trimming 223 can probably be skipped but why would you? Eventually it won't pass gauge. The object is to make ammo that is high quality and will chamber and fire in your guns. That can easily be done without dumping a bunch of money into a roll sizer.

  Now if one wants to argue they WANT a roll sizer then by all means get one. But they certainly are not needed. Just like a bullet feeder in my opinion. I wanted one and I got one but it is a luxury for the vast majority of us shooters.

Glad you get such a high pass rate from your hundo loading 9mm without rolling. I dont, there is likely a difference in the source of our brass.

Depending on where you get your brass from, the buldge at the base of the case cannot be corrected without a push through or roll sizer type solution. Much like swaging .223 or trimming, that brass is not going to be good when loaded unless you knew where it came from or have a good source. Albeit i would put swaging 223 and trimming it higher on the priority list. Two things can be true at the same time. It is preference,  you can load without a rollsizer, and yes, you can get higher quality ammo using a rollsizer. For most people, go ahead and forego rolling at the cost of a higher fail rate. Perfectly acceptable route to go.

 

I would consider things like a case feeder and bullet feeder luxury items that yield no difference in the quality of your ammo. A rollsizer does make a difference in the quality of your ammo.

Edited by Smithcity
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Sarge said:

I get 99% or better with 9mm using a Hundo gauge. Loading with Udie. Not cleaning brass damages dies, so that's necessary. Swaging 5.56 is absolutely necessary unless you KNOW it isn't crimped. Trimming 223 can probably be skipped but why would you? Eventually it won't pass gauge. The object is to make ammo that is high quality and will chamber and fire in your guns. That can easily be done without dumping a bunch of money into a roll sizer.

  Now if one wants to argue they WANT a roll sizer then by all means get one. But they certainly are not needed. Just like a bullet feeder in my opinion. I wanted one and I got one but it is a luxury for the vast majority of us shooters.

 

Use to think like you until I witness case separating way too often in shooters that shoot major loads with bulged brass.

 

Your experience will probably fit a lot of shooters that are loading .40 maybe minor? there I do not see as much of an issue as the pressure will be much lower.

 

I am not going for a bit more reliability only, if that was the case I would probably not spend the money on a roll sizer, I think that roll sizing would help in prevent case failure/separation as you are bringing it up to spec, that, coupled with a good load, good quality powder and die that doesn't undersize your brass and you have a recipe for success.

 

Please the brains of the  reloading world correct me if I am wrong.

 

I am actually looking at this way because I am loading .40 major and I am considering a roll sizer for the above stated reasons.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Avenida said:

 

Use to think like you until I witness case separating way too often in shooters that shoot major loads with bulged brass.

 

Your experience will probably fit a lot of shooters that are loading .40 maybe minor? there I do not see as much of an issue as the pressure will be much lower.

 

I am not going for a bit more reliability only, if that was the case I would probably not spend the money on a roll sizer, I think that roll sizing would help in prevent case failure/separation as you are bringing it up to spec, that, coupled with a good load, good quality powder and die that doesn't undersize your brass and you have a recipe for success.

 

Please the brains of the  reloading world correct me if I am wrong.

 

I am actually looking at this way because I am loading .40 major and I am considering a roll sizer for the above stated reasons.

 

Unless you are buying new brass and only reloading what came out of your gun, you have no idea where what you picked off the ground came from or the history of "once fired" you might buy online.

 

Totally agree, case in point, even if you are shooting 125pf 9mm, the brass you scooped off the ground may have been loaded 2 or 3 times already and last came put of a 9 major open gun or some tupaware gun with a partially supported chamber.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Avenida said:

 

Use to think like you until I witness case separating way too often in shooters that shoot major loads with bulged brass.

 

Your experience will probably fit a lot of shooters that are loading .40 maybe minor? there I do not see as much of an issue as the pressure will be much lower.

 

I am not going for a bit more reliability only, if that was the case I would probably not spend the money on a roll sizer, I think that roll sizing would help in prevent case failure/separation as you are bringing it up to spec, that, coupled with a good load, good quality powder and die that doesn't undersize your brass and you have a recipe for success.

 

Please the brains of the  reloading world correct me if I am wrong.

 

I am actually looking at this way because I am loading .40 major and I am considering a roll sizer for the above stated reasons.

 

40 tends to bulge more than most 9mm so I would probably use a push through on it.  I load 9MAJOR brass I pick up at major matches or buy cheap online or from local sellers when the price is right. I don't have enough problems with it to warrant anything other than using standard loading practices. 

  I don't follow you on the case head separations because of bulged brass being prevented by roll sizing. If it bulges and gets straightened back out it is still a weak spot per say. And if you load a piece of bulged brass without fixing it most likely that won't pass gauge or chamber anyway .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...