929/986 Bore Diameter

[amlew]

Do 929's and 986's really have .355 barrels? Or are they just .357 barrels?

 

Thanks

 

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by amlew

[jcc7x7]

Mine shot .358 coated bullets into an inch at 25yds from a rest.

.355's into a 3" group

FWIW

[Dr. Phil]

Same with mine. Loves the .358 and hates the .355.

YMMV

[9146gt]

.3575" + or - .0005" per Smith . Never did get an answer why the change. 

 

Tom

[swordfish]

The largest groove to groove diameter on a piece of lead through my barrel is .358.

[amlew]

It sounds like there just .357 barrels

[Hi-Power Jack]

6 minutes ago, amlew said:

It sounds like there just .357 barrels

 

Pretty close to .358" barrels.     

[IHAVEGAS]

On 11/10/2018 at 6:14 PM, jcc7x7 said:

Mine shot .358 coated bullets into an inch at 25yds from a rest.

.355's into a 3" group

FWIW

 

On 11/10/2018 at 8:22 PM, Dr. Phil said:

Same with mine. Loves the .358 and hates the .355.

YMMV

 

You mind letting me know which bullet you are having good luck with, how much of a problem leading is and if you have to do anything special in terms of brass selection/resizing/roll crimping? 

 

Would like to try again & figure out something that works well for my gun. Montana Gold 147's will group decent (3" 25 yard is about right) and not lead up but I would rather not be shooting something that pricey and would like groups to be better

[jcc7x7]

Bayou 147 or I like the 160's .358 dia, it's bayou standard 38 bullet dia.

I didn't do anything different loading them other than adjust seating depth

[IHAVEGAS]

Thank you. 

[MikeyScuba]

I've switched to the Ibejheads 165gr 358's.  Slightly cheaper than the Bayou's and they've sponsored a few ICORE matches we've been too.  I like the coating better too.

 

I did take advantage of the 50K+ 15% off,  I have a mix of 9mm, 40 and .358s.  What I didn't do properly was the math regarding total weight.  Luckily for me I rented an SUV for the recent 16th East coast match. 

At 1300lbs total the 20 boxes would have killed my impreza. Should be set for a while!

[Dr. Phil]

8 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

 

You mind letting me know which bullet you are having good luck with, how much of a problem leading is and if you have to do anything special in terms of brass selection/resizing/roll crimping? 

 

Would like to try again & figure out something that works well for my gun. Montana Gold 147's will group decent (3" 25 yard is about right) and not lead up but I would rather not be shooting something that pricey and would like groups to be better

 

I shoot Bayou 105gr .458 diameter bullets for SC. Very accurate. Not much leading. I also have a "bullet guy" who makes 105gr .380 bullets but sizes them at .3575. He makes me 155gr .3575 bullets for knock down steel matches. He powder coats his bullets. Hardly any leading.

We experimented with everything from .355 dia to .3575 and the bigger was better by a lot. Like 3"-4" 25 yd groups down to around 2". Much more accurate!

The comp leads up after around 8 - 10K. I may switch back to the plain end cap but I like the balance with the comp.

I use a Lee U die for sizing. Normal flare. I use a standard taper crimp die and seat and crimp in 1 station.

I also have shot a lot of .358 dia Blue Bullets. 147gr.

Hope it helps.

[9146gt]

115 Zero conical or 115 HAP with Auto Comp or N330 will shoot under 2" at 50 yds .

 

Tom

[swordfish]

17 hours ago, 9146gt said:

115 Zero conical or 115 HAP with Auto Comp or N330 will shoot under 2" at 50 yds .

 

Tom

I wish my eyes were good enough to shoot groups at 50yards

[MikeBurgess]

On 11/16/2018 at 11:36 AM, swordfish said:

I wish my eyes were good enough to shoot groups at 50yards

no kidding, I suck at group shooting

 

[pskys2]

Slug your barrel, or just use 357 bullets.  They usually work in a Revolver with no issues.

[BallisticianX]

After a lengthy discussion with S&W PC hierarchy they admitted; 9mm models use the same barrel diameter tolerances for the .357/38 models. So your bore will land between .3565" up to .3575". The 929 I had liked .357" sized bullets and was horrible with any .355 9mm pill and slightly better with .356 pills. Leading increased with coated bullets at .358". As an added bonus the 9mm cylinders are based on  .357/38 cartridge diameters with just a shorter throat. Never could fall in love with the 929.

[pskys2]

2 hours ago, BallisticianX said:

After a lengthy discussion with S&W PC hierarchy they admitted; 9mm models use the same barrel diameter tolerances for the .357/38 models. So your bore will land between .3565" up to .3575". The 929 I had liked .357" sized bullets and was horrible with any .355 9mm pill and slightly better with .356 pills. Leading increased with coated bullets at .358". As an added bonus the 9mm cylinders are based on  .357/38 cartridge diameters with just a shorter throat. Never could fall in love with the 929.

Did you ever try 38 short colt loads in the 929?

[BallisticianX]

3 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

Did you ever try 38 short colt loads in the 929?

I personally never did. No reason why they shouldnt work as the cylinder specs are for the .357/38 diameter case and so is the bore. I know a 38 did drop in mine as youd expect it to in a 38 chambered gun. I had money tied up in 9mm moonclips and brass so I just stuck with that while trying to work it out. I fell into the range brass savings and shorter case advantages for an impulse buy. All I got was a developed a hatred for the 6-1/2 barrel and that Ti cylinder. So I shall now rant on the 929 and why I steer clear.

Honestly when it comes down to it, any moonclip fed revolver needs to have a good fit between the clip and the brass. Brass, whether  9mm or 38 varients the extractor groove varies by brand. 9mm is a bit more forgiving in that dept but still is a factor. So for proper clips you need to match the brand of brass to the clip intended for that brass. So whether its 9mm or a 38 variant your either sorting brass or more wisely buying a bulk order of brass of a single brand (worth it as you dont lose any like an autoloader) and buying an appropriately matched clip. So with that considered the perceived advantage in 929 range brass use is, in my opinion, a draw between the two. Anyone that says otherwise is probably the same person who tells you their gun is laser accurate as 4" groups at 15 yards impresses them (insert sigh here).

Moving on, your using .357" or .358" bullets to be accurate so your using the same bullets as if you had a 38 variant. Then the Ti cylinder, its inherent inability to hold a chamber polish, premature cylinder stop notch peening, and stuck cases on extraction unless you use slower powders of which doesnt help half the time....I dont see any advantage to it over a 627. SO why bother and just get the 627; 5" barrel has a good sight radius and better maneuverability than the 6-1/2" 929. 627's Stainless cylinder can be worked/polished with ease and is more durable and wear resistant to hold a polish and resist peening. It extracts fine with any brass and powder combo. Also more versatility:  you want 9mm length loading/extraction with a little loss of accuracy, throw in short colts. You want a better mix of accuracy and shortness, throw in Long colts. Got a ton of old 38 specials lying around or someone (you trust) wants to give some away, throw em in and eat em up for practice, you wanna carry it while hunting, throw in .357 magnums. And best of all, after shooting those lead .38's throw in a cylinder worth of magnums and it flushes the lead away for easier cleaning latter on. Accuracy is equal potential between the two, with facory loaded ammo going to the 627 as you have the correct diameter bullet, factory 9's at .355" wont pair well with the 929 that needs 38 bullets.

Boom, rant done...more gun, more convenience, and more versatility for the same or less money.  

[MikeyScuba]

My thoughts...

 

We’ve never had an extraction issue.

 

I sort my 9mm brass for a single head stamp.  I’m lucky it’s the most popular of range brass but when looking at 357/38sp brass and moonclips it turns out there are no charts on TK with S&B, figures. I’ve a lot of S&B.  Plus DAA 929 moons are 1/3 the cost and I’ve got 3 already that won’t gauge. I’m assuming bent slightly.

 

I also like to leave brass behind when flying, not sure how the TSA would look at a bag of brass.  And overweight fees are something to avoid, (I’d be shipping ammunition to matches anyway).

 

9mm brass is almost like junk.

[Makicjf]

1 hour ago, BallisticianX said:

I personally never did. No reason why they shouldnt work as the cylinder specs are for the .357/38 diameter case and so is the bore. I know a 38 did drop in mine as youd expect it to in a 38 chambered gun. I had money tied up in 9mm moonclips and brass so I just stuck with that while trying to work it out. I fell into the range brass savings and shorter case advantages for an impulse buy. All I got was a developed a hatred for the 6-1/2 barrel and that Ti cylinder. So I shall now rant on the 929 and why I steer clear.

Honestly when it comes down to it, any moonclip fed revolver needs to have a good fit between the clip and the brass. Brass, whether  9mm or 38 varients the extractor groove varies by brand. 9mm is a bit more forgiving in that dept but still is a factor. So for proper clips you need to match the brand of brass to the clip intended for that brass. So whether its 9mm or a 38 variant your either sorting brass or more wisely buying a bulk order of brass of a single brand (worth it as you dont lose any like an autoloader) and buying an appropriately matched clip. So with that considered the perceived advantage in 929 range brass use is, in my opinion, a draw between the two. Anyone that says otherwise is probably the same person who tells you their gun is laser accurate as 4" groups at 15 yards impresses them (insert sigh here).

Moving on, your using .357" or .358" bullets to be accurate so your using the same bullets as if you had a 38 variant. Then the Ti cylinder, its inherent inability to hold a chamber polish, premature cylinder stop notch peening, and stuck cases on extraction unless you use slower powders of which doesnt help half the time....I dont see any advantage to it over a 627. SO why bother and just get the 627; 5" barrel has a good sight radius and better maneuverability than the 6-1/2" 929. 627's Stainless cylinder can be worked/polished with ease and is more durable and wear resistant to hold a polish and resist peening. It extracts fine with any brass and powder combo. Also more versatility:  you want 9mm length loading/extraction with a little loss of accuracy, throw in short colts. You want a better mix of accuracy and shortness, throw in Long colts. Got a ton of old 38 specials lying around or someone (you trust) wants to give some away, throw em in and eat em up for practice, you wanna carry it while hunting, throw in .357 magnums. And best of all, after shooting those lead .38's throw in a cylinder worth of magnums and it flushes the lead away for easier cleaning latter on. Accuracy is equal potential between the two, with facory loaded ammo going to the 627 as you have the correct diameter bullet, factory 9's at .355" wont pair well with the 929 that needs 38 bullets.

Boom, rant done...more gun, more convenience, and more versatility for the same or less money.  

Your experience with the 929 seems to match mine.  I've found my 627 pro to be a better revo for me in every aspect.  That being said, my 627 pro is dialed, smoothed and rolling, but im thinking about a back up/new USPSA/ICORE/SC revolver.  In your opinion, is the 1 inch more barrel and an over travel stop on the 627 PC worth the $350 more?  I know any competition revolver will need  "all the usual work", be it a 929, 627pro or 627 PC, so the trigger stop and the inch of barrel are the only difference I see.  What is  your take?

Jason

Edited January 22, 2019 by Makicjf

[pskys2]

3 hours ago, BallisticianX said:

I personally never did. No reason why they shouldnt work as the cylinder specs are for the .357/38 diameter case and so is the bore. I know a 38 did drop in mine as youd expect it to in a 38 chambered gun. I had money tied up in 9mm moonclips and brass so I just stuck with that while trying to work it out. I fell into the range brass savings and shorter case advantages for an impulse buy. All I got was a developed a hatred for the 6-1/2 barrel and that Ti cylinder. So I shall now rant on the 929 and why I steer clear.

Honestly when it comes down to it, any moonclip fed revolver needs to have a good fit between the clip and the brass. Brass, whether  9mm or 38 varients the extractor groove varies by brand. 9mm is a bit more forgiving in that dept but still is a factor. So for proper clips you need to match the brand of brass to the clip intended for that brass. So whether its 9mm or a 38 variant your either sorting brass or more wisely buying a bulk order of brass of a single brand (worth it as you dont lose any like an autoloader) and buying an appropriately matched clip. So with that considered the perceived advantage in 929 range brass use is, in my opinion, a draw between the two. Anyone that says otherwise is probably the same person who tells you their gun is laser accurate as 4" groups at 15 yards impresses them (insert sigh here).

Moving on, your using .357" or .358" bullets to be accurate so your using the same bullets as if you had a 38 variant. Then the Ti cylinder, its inherent inability to hold a chamber polish, premature cylinder stop notch peening, and stuck cases on extraction unless you use slower powders of which doesnt help half the time....I dont see any advantage to it over a 627. SO why bother and just get the 627; 5" barrel has a good sight radius and better maneuverability than the 6-1/2" 929. 627's Stainless cylinder can be worked/polished with ease and is more durable and wear resistant to hold a polish and resist peening. It extracts fine with any brass and powder combo. Also more versatility:  you want 9mm length loading/extraction with a little loss of accuracy, throw in short colts. You want a better mix of accuracy and shortness, throw in Long colts. Got a ton of old 38 specials lying around or someone (you trust) wants to give some away, throw em in and eat em up for practice, you wanna carry it while hunting, throw in .357 magnums. And best of all, after shooting those lead .38's throw in a cylinder worth of magnums and it flushes the lead away for easier cleaning latter on. Accuracy is equal potential between the two, with facory loaded ammo going to the 627 as you have the correct diameter bullet, factory 9's at .355" wont pair well with the 929 that needs 38 bullets.

Boom, rant done...more gun, more convenience, and more versatility for the same or less money.  

I think it was Ty Hamby who posted a very long thread on the 929 and using 38 short colt using 627 38 starline brass sized moon clips.  Seems it worked great.  But I seem to remember that the resizing issue "might" be a problem with re-using in a 627.

To this end I tried a handful of 38 short colts sized in a 9mm die and shot them through my 627.  Remember the brass had NOT been shot in a 9mm chamber, but the 9mm sizing die did size the case down.  I then reloaded them and shot them in my 627 with no issues.

I was wondering if firing in a 929 9mm cylinder would change that results though.

[pskys2]

2 hours ago, Makicjf said:

Your experience with the 929 seems to match mine.  I've found my 627 pro to be a better revo for me in every aspect.  That being said, my 627 pro is dialed, smoothed and rolling, but im thinking about a back up/new USPSA/ICORE/SC revolver.  In your opinion, is the 1 inch more barrel and an over travel stop on the 627 PC worth the $350 more?  I know any competition revolver will need  "all the usual work", be it a 929, 627pro or 627 PC, so the trigger stop and the inch of barrel are the only difference I see.  What is  your take?

Jason

The only difference between the Pro 4" and the PC 5" is the barrel and the resulting difference in velocity and aiming.  Both can be a plus or minus.  As barrels can differ and the velocities of a 4" can be the same as a 5" due to a whole host of issues.  As for the benefit of the extra inch, I'm not sold as I think it depends on the skill level and the person.

[Bosshoss]

627 PC also has a different front lock up than the Pro.

[pskys2]

18 hours ago, Bosshoss said:

627 PC also has a different front lock up than the Pro.

Didn't realize that, but haven't really seen differences of note between the types.