Case Trimmer Dillon RT1500 vs Giraud

[achalmersman]

Loading .223 for 3 gun and various shooting. Hand trimmed 1200 cases and wet tumbled with pins and then chamfered the mouth. I hated every minute of it. I am considering either a rt 1500 mounted on the brass prep head of my 650, or the giraud trimmer. Will the dillon trimmer produce a clean enough cut (after tumbling) to load without chamfering? Anybody got pics of a dillon trimmed and tumbled case mouth vs the giraud? Anybody got both and want to provide their take? Much appreciated. Andrew

 

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[stick]

I use a RT1500 on my XL650.  I don't use a giraud, so I can't comment on its use.  The cut is pretty good with the RT1500.  After I trim, I throw them back into the tumbler to remove any small debris.

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by stick

[stick]

photo wouldn't attach.  Here's the brass after it's tumbled.

[achalmersman]

Thanks man. So you don't chamfer the mouth and you have no issues shaving bullets right? I am leaning the rt1500 route as it takes a lot of steps out of the process

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[cvincent]

The tumbling with pins doesn’t really remove the burrs in my experience. It knocks the sharpness down a little bit. However, I use a Lyman M die on the loading toolhead along with a Lee FCD. The M die knocks off the burr on the ID and the FCD knocks off the OD burr. Works great. I use a boring bar instead of the end mill. I think it makes a cleaner cut. But unless converting blackout brass the cost is probably not worth it. Can’t comment on the giraud, but the RT1500 is more efficient for sure.


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[L3324temp]

Similar to above, the M die and crimp is all that is needed.


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[jcwallace84]

Same. RT1500, Lyman m, and a taper crimp

[12glocks]

If you are going to get into long range one day the Giraud may be better for a couple of reasons:  it chamfers the inside case mouth and it does not affect the neck diameter, particularly making it smaller like the Dillon.  The bad thing about the Giraud is you have to handle every piece of brass.  One can trim a large volume of brass in a day with the Dillon!

 

I have the RT1500 and I have a case prep toolhead with a universal decapper in station one and the trim die in station 3.  I am unable to fit any other dies on the tool head (for a 650) because of the massive size of the 1500.  I wish they still made the 1200.  When trimming with the 1500 it resizes the case and bumps the shoulder back and all that BUT it does not run an expander ball through the case mouth (obviously) so the case mouth diameter is actually quite small after trimming/sizing.  After trimming I tumble off the lube.  Some guys will load like that, others will chamfer, others (like me) run a expander ball through the case mouth on their loading tool head or use a M die or mandrel.  On my loading tool head I screw out a Dillon resizing the die two full turns and make sure the decapping pin is down.  The Dillon die has a carbide expander ball.  I load my 3 gun ammo using the Dillon powder measure.  My SD's are in the high teens and group size is solid sub moa out to 200 (with 6x optics) out of quality hand lapped barrels. 

 

I am always evolving and setting up a precision toolhead with a electronic powder measure and precision dies and all that but for now this present technique works for 3 gun nicely.  I think the cut is very clean and square, the cutter is carbide.  I have probably trimmed three 5 gallon buckets on mine and its still perfect.

[cvincent]

I didn’t like the expander ball. The brass had more neck runout than with an M die, and it didn’t work with a Bullet feeder, the bullets would topple while indexing, M die solves that. My experience anyway.


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[RiggerJJ]

The RT trims very clean, there may be some swarf still attached to the mouth, but it all comes off in the tumbler when you are removing the lube before loading. The trim die is also a full length size die, but the case ID will be too tight for bullet seating and probably will shave the bullet because it doesn't have a bell. Most of us use an initial full length size die to do about 75% of the sizing and decapping before the trim station, and an expander/bell after the trim.

 

Try the Dillon swage hold down die for ID "chamfering",  it will expand the neck to the correct size and bell the mouth slightly when set right, as the RT die leaves the neck way too tight.

 

Any taper crimp set to lightly kiss the mouth expansion back down to the bullet will remove the outside burr from the trimmer.

 

Been loading bulk 223 and 308 for years this way, if you do the rest of your part right you should get sub MOA ammo with decent hollow point bullets.

 

jj

[achalmersman]

Thanks guys. @12glocks the dillon resizing die in station 1 during reloading unscrewed 2 turns works well without lube? Really appreciate the helpful information here. Looks like I should go this route or M die. Dillon FL die unscrewed would also help verify the flash hole was clear no? Thanks again. Andrew

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[Nathanb]

I use a 1500 with a universal decap die in station one.  Decap trim and check primer pockets after for crimps. 

[RiggerJJ]

I would not resize bottleneck cases without lube. Sooner or later you will get a stuck case, probably sooner...

 

without lube the 1st full length die unscrewed 2 turns may not stick, but I'll bet the trim die will...

Edited November 8, 2018 by RiggerJJ

[Glock021]

I've never actually used the high end Giraud.  But I don't see a case feeder option for it.  It also looks like it would make your fingers hurt.  I previously used a couple of the drill mounted trimmers.  I've upgraded to a Dillon 1200.  I still don't like trimming, but I despise it a whole lot less now.

Universal decapper in station 1.  Trimmer in station 3.  M die in station 5.

 

 

[achalmersman]

I would not resize bottleneck cases without lube. Sooner or later you will get a stuck case, probably sooner...
 
without lube the 1st full length die unscrewed 2 turns may not stick, but I'll bet the trim die will...

I'm talking about no lube only during the loading process when the neck gets expanded slightly. Cases would be lubed during the decap / trim / full length size tool head.

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[RiggerJJ]

I wouldn't use a sizing die at all on the loading head. The expansion ball does not bell the mouth, it just expands the neck. Instead I would use a universal decap die in position one just to clear tumbling media from the flash hole.

 

then if it hasn't been done already I would use an Mdie or the swage hold down die to expand and bell.

 

[anbrumm]

If you're using it for bulk trimming, my vote would be the rt1500. It does the job well enough, and I have no issues seating bullets with using the M-Die right after trim.

[achalmersman]

I bought the M die. Thanks for the recommendations guy. Rt1500 is the route I'm gonna go

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[OldSchoolRanger]

I recently purchased a Giraud after years of suffering thru using the various hand powered (Lee Case length gauges & trimmer, Hornady) brass trimmers, and drill powered (Lee, WFT).  Since I only have the Square Deal, and the RL550 reloaders.  My rifle reloading routine has been to swage all the military and civilian brass which need swaging with the Dillon SS.  Size all brass, run it through the Giraud, then run them thru the loading cycle. 

 

I can't complain about the Giraud, it doesn't hurt my hands like the previous types of brass trimmers, and gets the job done fairly quickly.  The greatest thing about the Giraud is that it saves me the deburring, and chamfering operation.  But it is a little expensive.

 

I have the Giraud set up for the 223 & 308 only, and still use the hand tools to do other rifle calibers.