650 difficulty with sizing die

[DKnoch]

I have to use excessive pressure pulling the handle on my 650. It all comes from the sizing die..I'm using Lee dies, I'm thinking may not be carbide (I've had them for a while and can't remember). Yes I use case lube (Dillon). I've stripped the die apart and cleaned it before and it was a bit better for a short period of time, but still not as easy as it should be. And breaking the die apart to clean it every 100-200 rounds is a pain. And yes I tumble my brass so it's not exceptionally dirty. I even used to wet tumble, but went back to dry. I know it's the sizing die because if there's not a case in station 1 it's very easy to operate. Do I need to just buy Dillon carbide dies or is there another possible issue at work?

[Hi-Power Jack]

I'd give Dillon a quick call - they're great at solving problems like this, and quickly     

[garlar4]

I have to use excessive pressure pulling the handle on my 650. It all comes from the sizing die..I'm using Lee dies, I'm thinking may not be carbide (I've had them for a while and can't remember). Yes I use case lube (Dillon). I've stripped the die apart and cleaned it before and it was a bit better for a short period of time, but still not as easy as it should be. And breaking the die apart to clean it every 100-200 rounds is a pain. And yes I tumble my brass so it's not exceptionally dirty. I even used to wet tumble, but went back to dry. I know it's the sizing die because if there's not a case in station 1 it's very easy to operate. Do I need to just buy Dillon carbide dies or is there another possible issue at work?

Had a similar problem. Turned out it was a bent depriming rod in the die. Bent just enough to add extra resistance and still deprime.


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[DKnoch]

Had a similar problem. Turned out it was a bent depriming rod in the die. Bent just enough to add extra resistance and still deprime.


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Interesting, thanks for the info. I'll pull the rod and see if it's better. I'll save the call to Dillon it this doesn't fix it. Of course I don't have an extra rod because im not smart

[Furrly]

Try a different die, if you have one.. Lee's tend to run Tighter tollarances. 

[garlar4]

Interesting, thanks for the info. I'll pull the rod and see if it's better. I'll save the call to Dillon it this doesn't fix it. Of course I don't have an extra rod because im not smart

Most people only get extras after they bend one and get s#!t down lol


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[stick]

Sounds like a bent decapping rod.  Unless you are using bulged brass, but I doubt that would be the problem.

[EEH]

Daniel if you can’t find the problem . I’ll be at the toys for tots this Saturday, I have a die I’ll bring with me, just pm me if you need it.

 

[DKnoch]

Daniel if you can’t find the problem . I’ll be at the toys for tots this Saturday, I have a die I’ll bring with me, just pm me if you need it.
 

Eddie thanks for offer, I'm not going this year though. I may take you up on it if you'll be at Low Country this month? Sorry I haven't been on past few days

[DKnoch]

So I removed the decapping pin and it was still tough. I put a bit of blue magic and very fine grit sandpaper to the inside of it. Seemed to help some, still not as smooth as I was hoping for

[Sarge]

Just get another LEE die. What are they $20? 100% sure it’s the correct die? Try running it with the primer punch removed? Tight tolerance means nothing. Many run LEE and EGW undersized dies with lube and they are smooth as butter. This is a LEE issue, not a Dillon issue. 

[Nevadazielmeister]

Why not get the Dillon Carbide sizing die? Am I missing something?

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, Nevadazielmeister said:

Why not get the Dillon Carbide sizing die? Am I missing something?

That real wide chamfer on the mouth keeps it from sizing all the way down like other brands of dies. Supposedly feeds better but my LEE and EGW feed just as well and size tighter and much lower. At less then half the cost. LEE is known for budget(junk)presses but their dies are the best for the money. And when I bought my press I fell for the Dillon dies like other newbs. The carbide ring cracked in the first month. Sure, they replaced it but I bought an EGW while waiting and have never gone back to Dillon. I do use it to deprime before wet tumbling but thats it.

[BritinUSA]

It may not be properly aligned with the shell plate. Loosen the locking nut,  put a case in the shell plate and slowly raise it, the die will move a little to align itself to the case, then when the case is still inserted in the die, tighten the locking nut.

 

If that does not work then call Dillon and ask for an alignment tool.

[Nevadazielmeister]

6 hours ago, Sarge said:

That real wide chamfer on the mouth keeps it from sizing all the way down like other brands of dies. Supposedly feeds better but my LEE and EGW feed just as well and size tighter and much lower. At less then half the cost. LEE is known for budget(junk)presses but their dies are the best for the money. And when I bought my press I fell for the Dillon dies like other newbs. The carbide ring cracked in the first month. Sure, they replaced it but I bought an EGW while waiting and have never gone back to Dillon. I do use it to deprime before wet tumbling but thats it.

 

Well, I have not experienced anything like that. If you want really good dies, look at Whidden or Redding. But with Dillon's guarantee, how can one go wrong, right?

 

I'm just not sure I understand why sizing "tighter and lower" is really a concern for most applications. That appears to be a good way to overwork the brass that is simply not necessary. In fact, with some people running 9mm MAJOR, I suspect that those dies might reduce the size of the case, making the loads even more compressed. Which would just lead to more bullet growth. 

[Sarge]

50 minutes ago, Nevadazielmeister said:

 

I'm just not sure I understand why sizing "tighter and lower" is really a concern for most applications. That appears to be a good way to overwork the brass that is simply not necessary. In fact, with some people running 9mm MAJOR, I suspect that those dies might reduce the size of the case, making the loads even more compressed. Which would just lead to more bullet growth. 

None of that is an issue. AND, sizing lower helps with any bulges that you might come across. There is a reason some reloaders mill off the bottom of the Dillon sizing die to bring the carbide ring lower. Sizing tighter by just a thousandth cures most any setback issue. As a matter of fact my original Dillon die was not sizing tight enough to hold MG bullets in Speer brass with its thinner case walls. 

LEE dies are pretty good.

[DKnoch]

Just get another LEE die. What are they $20? 100% sure it’s the correct die? Try running it with the primer punch removed? Tight tolerance means nothing. Many run LEE and EGW undersized dies with lube and they are smooth as butter. This is a LEE issue, not a Dillon issue. 

I agree this is a die issue not one with my 650. I doubt it's an alignment issue as suggested because I'm not crushing primers and it's going in all other dies fine. I did actually have that issue a few months ago. I called Dillon to get the alignment tool and instead he helped me fix the problem and the alignment tool was not needed in my case. I probably will get another sizing die, and may just get another Lee die and make sure it's a carbide one. I use Dillon lube currently. Everyone raves about brass juice, I guess I can try a little bit of that to see if it's better or just snake oil

[IronicTwitch]

My experience this week agrees. Brand  new 650 with Dillon dies.  Previously I was loading on a SDB with zero brass issues.  On the 650, Dillon sizing die was pushing brass down into a ledge on some bulged cases (about 1 every 10 cases).  Buddy loaned me his Lee U die. Just ran 100 problem free including a lot of nickel plated that I was having issues with before.

 

Here's the brass comparison picture (3 bad and 2 good ones from the Lee). I've got a few hundred more cases with a partial brass ledges that pass the case gauge. These cases that have a full ledge all the way around obviously won't case gauge. Needless to say, I've ordered the Lee U die.

Edited November 11, 2018 by IronicTwitch

[IronicTwitch]

Here's a pic of rounds with a hint of ledge that still pass the case gauge.

[RiggerJJ]

I would be wary of those with that ledge or close to one, they appear to be over stretched in that area, possibly by a open major gun. They possibly could blow out on you pretty easily....

[IronicTwitch]

Good point. I've got them separated from my previously loaded good stuff.  I'll dispose of the ones that have a visible ledge.  Lesson learned.