Bullet weight vs the timer

[ncrivello]

Anybody conducted a controlled study of bullet weight vs the timer over a course of fire?  115gr vs 124 vs 147 etc.  

 

Does the perception of lower recoil impulse with heavier bullets actually result in a quantifiable difference?  

 

if there’s a better sub forum for this, I’ll post it there.

[IDescribe]

I'm unclear on the question.  What could bullet weight have to do with the timer?

[IDescribe]

Wait.  Are you not asking about the timer at all?

Are you really just asking in a more general sense if heavier bullets and softer felt recoil result in better times?

[Nathanb]

You mean do you shoot one weight faster than another?

[jcc7x7]

I find that in slow fire practice/shooting the softer shooting stuff feels great i.e. the heavier bullets at lower velocities.

BUT

Doing drills with the purpose of only counting runs with all A's. So I know I'm controlling the gun/sights/dot etc properly and not just hosing! 

I shoot the light bullets or heavy bullets loaded to the same basic PF the same on the timer.

Based on that I'm shooting what ever load is the most accurate or feeds best in the pistol.

Then just get used to the pistol/load combo and shoot instead of chasing the panacea load.

 

My open guns I load them until the dot stabilizes the best (my guns its about 174-176 PF)

[MikieM]

If all things were equal, then yes, bullet weight would make a difference. The faster a bullet flies the sooner it gets to the target, etc. In the real world of DVC, I don't see it.

Perhaps at the highest levels (M and GM) where they split hairs a bit finer than we mortals do, maybe. And they would be the ones to ask.

[IDescribe]

5 minutes ago, MikieM said:

If all things were equal, then yes, bullet weight would make a difference. The faster a bullet flies the sooner it gets to the target... 

 

What does that have to do with the timer?  The timer records the report from the pistol, not when the bullet hits the target. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

6 hours ago, ncrivello said:

 

Does the perception of lower recoil impulse with heavier bullets actually result in a quantifiable difference (on the timer)?  

 

 

I've never actually tried it myself, but I've read here, many times, that most better shooters than me,

prefer the 124's vs the 147's.

 

If you have  a really strong grip - the 124's apparently snap back into place your sights a little

faster, and they swear they can shoot faster with the lighter bullets ...

 

But, I don't remember many people who prefer the 115's.

 

(I'm making the assumption you're talking about 9mm Minor, and NOT 9mm Major).      

[B_RAD]

I'm starting to think the better a shooter gets the less they care about recoil/muzzle lift. We all end up with a preferred load but I think less and less about recoil the more I shoot. I want accuracy. 

 

To answer the OP, I'd say bullet wieght does not matter on the timer. 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2018 by B_RAD

[kneelingatlas]

15 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

I'm starting to think the better a shooter gets the less they care about recoil/muzzle lift. We all end up with a preferred load but I think less and less about recoil the more I shoot. I want accuracy. 

 

To answer the OP, I'd say bullet wieght does not matter on the timer. 

 

I can get behind this statement, I think when you first start reloading you're blown away by the power you have to load soft shooting loads and it's easy to make the assumption the softest shooting load will help you score the best, but as you progress you find it doesn't matter all that much.

 

In theory, a softer shooting load should help you shoot faster splits, but I think most shooters B class and up are all in the 0.10 to 0.20 range regardless of PF or bullet weight.  At that point you find it all about getting in and out of shooting positions quicker and shooting lots of As.

[chevrofreak]

There is a balance that you have to find between soft recoil and speed back on target.   I have tried 160gr 9mm with fast powders that felt very soft, but the slide moved super slow coming back and going forward.  That, to me wasn't something I could shoot quickly.  Personally, a snappy recoil comes back on target more quickly for me.  

 

I am actually a fan of a slow powder with a heavy bullet.  My carry load is a 147gr HST with 5.1gr of N350 behind it, and it feels very nice.  It doesn't move the slide slowly, and it comes right back onto target quickly, but feels soft.    If I wasn't shooting open now, that would be my carry optics load. 

[IDescribe]

I've said it before - - no one should assume that a bullet that moves the slide slower and returns the slide to battery later translates to faster. 

 

For someone who waits for the sights to find their way back to the target, maybe a slower, heavier bullet and softer recoil helps?  But for someone driving the sights back on target, slower is not faster. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by IDescribe

[stick]

I've conducted a study.  Here's my conclusion.

The bullet travelling the fastest will get to the target first.

[MikieM]

15 hours ago, IDescribe said:

 

What does that have to do with the timer?  The timer records the report from the pistol, not when the bullet hits the target. 

 

True enough, but when the timer goes off and the stage begins the shooter with the higher FPS will have a faster time for that stage, all else being equal.

I think that's what our OP is after.

[B_RAD]

49 minutes ago, MikieM said:

 

True enough, but when the timer goes off and the stage begins the shooter with the higher FPS will have a faster time for that stage, all else being equal.

I think that's what our OP is after.

What?......

 

How does the velocity of a bullet make the stage time faster or slower?

 

I think the OP is asking if the weight of bullets translates to faster or slower split times. 

 

How fast the bullet gets to the paper has zero affect on stage time. 

[Balakay]

2 hours ago, MikieM said:

 

True enough, but when the timer goes off and the stage begins the shooter with the higher FPS will have a faster time for that stage, all else being equal.

I think that's what our OP is after.

not the case at all

[MikieM]

You're sure about that.

[IDescribe]

49 minutes ago, MikieM said:

You're sure about that.

 

 

Yes.  Your time on the stage is from the start beep to the sound/report/bang of the last shot fired. 

How fast the bullets are traveling doesn't effect that.

[IDescribe]

Mikie

1 hour ago, MikieM said:

You're sure about that.

Maybe if you conceptualized what's happening:

The shot timer beeps and starts a timer running in the background.  Then every time it hears the gun fire, it records whatever time the timer is at.  Whatever time is recorded at the moment the last shot is fired, THAT time IS your time for the stage.  Your final time for the stage is recorded WHILE the bullet is still traveling to the target.

[zzt]

I have experimented enough to know that for me, lighter is faster.  Yes it hits the hand harder, but muzzle rise is less and the sights settle for the second shot more quickly.  The only time I won't shoot the lighter bullet is if accuracy suffers.  For example:  my Limited gun shoots dead accurate with 165 and 180 gr bullets at major, but no so well with 155.  So I shoot 165s for major.  Interestingly, the same gun loves 155s for minor steel loads.  Go figure.

[ddc]

I think we are talking about two different things here.

1. I think the OP is asking if you can shoot a  faster stage time if you shoot a load with a bullet that has a higher velocity as opposed to one with a slower velocity.

2. Some of the responses are discussing the pros/cons of fast powder/heavy bullets on split times.

 

[motosapiens]

10 minutes ago, ddc said:

I think we are talking about two different things here.

1. I think the OP is asking if you can shoot a  faster stage time if you shoot a load with a bullet that has a higher velocity as opposed to one with a slower velocity.

2. Some of the responses are discussing the pros/cons of fast powder/heavy bullets on split times.

 

 

Unless the OP is really silly, he is wanting to know if one can shoot stages faster with slower heavier bullets (less perceived recoil), or with faster lighter bullets (snappier, possibly quicker cycling and return of sights, but more perceived recoil).

 

the answer of course, is 'it depends'. It depends on the gun, springs, shooter's skill, preferences and practice.

 

I spent a fair amount of time and energy testing 124 vs 147 in 2 different SS minor guns,  doing 10 yard headshots, 15 yard partials, dot drills, etc... One of them (tri-topped slide) was provably faster to return the sights with 147's. The other one (full-weight slide) was pretty much a wash, but *slightly* better with 124's.

 

In general, it appears to me that the more experienced and skilled the shooter is, the less likely he will prefer heavier bullets. I didn't understand this when I started shooting, but around the time I made master, I started really noticing that with some combinations, I was waiting for the sights to stop flopping around so I could shoot again. So if you do some testing, and come to a result, don't consider it etched in stone. It may change a year or two down the road as your skills evolve.

Edited November 4, 2018 by motosapiens

[Jfitz427]

I’ve done some testing on the practice range with this. I have a really light load that still makes minor, 147g with 2.8g titegroup, there’s basically no recoil, like a 22. And I was consistently a bit faster with it compared to 115, or 124g loads. Recover faster from each shot so faster follow ups. 

 

Its a great load but basically worthless now since i shoot open. Don’t really like to use it training with my carry guns as the recoil of my defensive loads (124g hst) is way harsher, and I like to mimic that. 

[IDescribe]

1 hour ago, ddc said:

I think we are talking about two different things here.

1. I think the OP is asking if you can shoot a  faster stage time if you shoot a load with a bullet that has a higher velocity as opposed to one with a slower velocity.

 

It's unclear.  Look at the second sentence below where he talked about lower recoil impulse.  It is unclear what he's asking.  

 

 

On 11/3/2018 at 12:02 PM, ncrivello said:

Anybody conducted a controlled study of bullet weight vs the timer over a course of fire?  115gr vs 124 vs 147 etc.  

 

Does the perception of lower recoil impulse with heavier bullets actually result in a quantifiable difference?

 

[Hi-Power Jack]

I believe that the OP is asking:  

Many shooters with no comp prefer a heavier bullet and fast powder to achieve

a selected PF, because most people agree that the heavier bullet/fast powder is "softer" - therefore preferred by

many shooters.  

 

BUT, his question is,  "does this "softer" translate to faster time on the timer"?

 

I believe that five different people, above, answered the question that the "harsher" lighter bullet

gives them the better time on the clock.