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jstagn

38 super comp brass

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On 10/30/2018 at 6:28 AM, jstagn said:

Best place to buy new, once fired?

Best price I've found for new Starline is from CZ Custom, when it's in stock. $138 per 1000, included shipping last time I ordered.

Edited by dons

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18 hours ago, telligentgunner said:

 

I've gotten a little feedback from JJ R., but can someone please list the benefits of .38 super over 9mm major?

My understanding is the longer case allows for more options for powders. Some powders fill the case more so the longer case helps with that. SC can be loaded longer oal which should be more reliable in 2011's. Not that shorter OAL don't run too.  

 

My gun is running 9 major 100%!  Though, if cost was the same (without picking up and reusing) I'd choose SC. (again I shoot a 2011). 

 

 

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On 11/1/2018 at 5:06 PM, telligentgunner said:

 

I've gotten a little feedback from JJ R., but can someone please list the benefits of .38 super over 9mm major?

Benefits, well SV doesn’t make 9 major guns anymore, I guess because they’re so finicky? I think that says something.  I think one benefit would be that standard book loads make major, but I’m not worried about my 9 major loads, they’ve proven pretty safe. 

 

My trubor is a 38, and I just bought a 9mm barrel to have fitted. I hate shooting 38 outdoors. I found about 185/200 pieces yesterday, which isn’t bad. But I really really had to look for it. With 9mm I’m fine with finding 50% of it after practice,  or even having to leave it all at a match. But leaving a few hundred  pieces of 38 at a match, that sucks. 

 

 

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In my experience 38 shoots softer and flatter than 9 maj. All the other details aren't that significant when you factor in how much $ we already spend just to shoot open 

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On 11/5/2018 at 11:46 AM, IDAHOAASHOOTER said:

In my experience 38 shoots softer and flatter than 9 maj. All the other details aren't that significant when you factor in how much $ we already spend just to shoot open 

 

Right now myself and others, some mainly SC guys and some like myself being 9 guys are playing with this. I bought into this idea before being able to tune up both, but now that I have I'm having trouble coming up with SC loads that either shoot better or feel softer. I'm set up to make the switch, but can't find a reason to go to SC, in fact I still like 9 better. SC I find violent, the opposite of what everyone tells me. I'm still not giving up yet, though, I may find the "magic" I hear so much about.  I have another powder to try that won't work in 9. 

 

The benefits to SC I've found. 

1) How nice it stacks in mags. 

 

That's it. I've had same troubles loading used SC as used 9 and a few new ones. New brass loads great, just like new 9. The case capacity I thought would be awesome, then I found the powder I couldn't get to major in 9 but liked wasn't that great in SC anyway. My favorite SC powder so far is my favorite 9 powder. 

 

Having done all this I'm even more convinced it's completely irrelevant and the trick is a good gun you'll shoot a ton. 

 

As far as how much we spend and ammo being insignificant, I've said it before, the gun is the cheap part. The ammo is where all your money goes if you shoot enough. 

Edited by theWacoKid

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On 10/30/2018 at 12:33 PM, telligentgunner said:

I'm considering a 38 super for open. Can someone tell me the typical price difference for reloading 9mm vs. 38 super?

Why not 38sc, I heard it's more reliable? The price difference is only the brass. 

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On 11/1/2018 at 11:23 AM, B_RAD said:

My opinion from what I've read/heard is .38SC is the better option in every way except cost. Yes, if you pick up as much as you can, then it could be a wash. Though, 9 major seems to be good enough. But given the option, and cost being equal, and the gun will run either round, nobody would choose 9 major. 

 

I'm shooting 9major because of the cost and I will not hunt and peck for brass. My gun runs 100%!  If it didn't I'd shoot SC or probably not shoot open.

 

On a side note, acme sent an email out and they have .38SC for $14 per 100 now thru November. 

 

thanks a lot. Who is acme? 

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14 minutes ago, highhope said:

thanks a lot. Who is acme? 

Acme bullets. 

 

Also seen some on Precision Deltas website. They usually do free shipping so pick up some bullet too. Gotta save where you can. 

Edited by B_RAD

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9 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

Acme bullets. 

 

Also seen some on Precision Deltas website. They usually do free shipping so pick up some bullet too. Gotta save where you can. 

 

Great! thank you man

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One fired 38 SC brass...a unicorn Ive yet to harness. Saw some questions about how many times you can load 9mm major and 38 SC;  9 major once and your good as long as your range brass was without bulges to begin with, load it twice and its a high risk for blow out, load it 3 times and your more daring than Evil Knievel! With 38 SC starline Ive loaded it 7 times without issue so honestly you'll probably lose it at a match before you exceed it usable life. 

Bottom line: 9 major is thought to be cheaper and more convenient with range brass. My thought is no, it isnt; cheaper as you might not be paying for brass but it stops there. In order to combat what condition that range brass is in to prevent problems you really need to inspect it and base size it in case of any bulges. That equipment costs money and it takes time. Trust me a bad case will blow out and lock up the gun! So now your doing all that to let it hit the ground for a one time use. I don't see the savings or convenience in it. As mentioned if you buy new brass its about equal cost between the two and again your shooting the 9's once where the 38 SC you can load again. Finally I've owned both and the 38 SC allows for more options in powders and can be made to shoot flatter. So my final thoughts are if your gonna spend 5k+ on the Top Fuel Dragster of the handgun world you shouldn't be worried about skimping on what fuel you put in it to sacrifice the performance you invested in!

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9 minutes ago, BallisticianX said:

One fired 38 SC brass...a unicorn Ive yet to harness. Saw some questions about how many times you can load 9mm major and 38 SC;  9 major once and your good as long as your range brass was without bulges to begin with, load it twice and its a high risk for blow out, load it 3 times and your more daring than Evil Knievel! With 38 SC starline Ive loaded it 7 times without issue so honestly you'll probably lose it at a match before you exceed it usable life. 

Bottom line: 9 major is thought to be cheaper and more convenient with range brass. My thought is no, it isnt; cheaper as you might not be paying for brass but it stops there. In order to combat what condition that range brass is in to prevent problems you really need to inspect it and base size it in case of any bulges. That equipment costs money and it takes time. Trust me a bad case will blow out and lock up the gun! So now your doing all that to let it hit the ground for a one time use. I don't see the savings or convenience in it. As mentioned if you buy new brass its about equal cost between the two and again your shooting the 9's once where the 38 SC you can load again. Finally I've owned both and the 38 SC allows for more options in powders and can be made to shoot flatter. So my final thoughts are if your gonna spend 5k+ on the Top Fuel Dragster of the handgun world you shouldn't be worried about skimping on what fuel you put in it to sacrifice the performance you invested in!

 

We are all continuing to sound like broken records on both sides of this issue.  If you shoot 9 brass once you are wasting money even though it's still cheap.  Many of us shoot it over and over and over without any problems and without "blow outs".  My bucket of range brass gets loaded, shot in practice, picked up, loaded, shot in practice, and on and on.  None of it was purchased new.  I also run new brass in practice and after loading it a bunch it becomes match brass.  I have yet to load any batch of brass, new or otherwise, to the death in 9mm.  I also buy once fired same head stamp and sometimes that gets loaded just the once to lose at a match.  I load with powders on the slower end of the spectrum.

 

I have also been loading and shooting 38 super comp with new brass, purchased used brass, and range stuff I've picked up.  It is meh and up to this point I haven't found it to be any tangible improvement from 9 major.  Without a doubt it is more expensive in the long run.  The best thing about it is how nice it stacks in mags, which only satisfies my OCD.

 

As far as skimping on ammo cost, like I keep bringing up, the $5-7k dollar gun is the cheap part and it is expendable.  I will feed it whatever runs, works, and allows me to shoot the most because that's where all my money is actually spent.  

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2 minutes ago, theWacoKid said:

 

We are all continuing to sound like broken records on both sides of this issue.  If you shoot 9 brass once you are wasting money even though it's still cheap.  Many of us shoot it over and over and over without any problems and without "blow outs".  My bucket of range brass gets loaded, shot in practice, picked up, loaded, shot in practice, and on and on.  None of it was purchased new.  I also run new brass in practice and after loading it a bunch it becomes match brass.  I have yet to load any batch of brass, new or otherwise, to the death in 9mm.  I also buy once fired same head stamp and sometimes that gets loaded just the once to lose at a match.  I load with powders on the slower end of the spectrum.

 

I have also been loading and shooting 38 super comp with new brass, purchased used brass, and range stuff I've picked up.  It is meh and up to this point I haven't found it to be any tangible improvement from 9 major.  Without a doubt it is more expensive in the long run.  The best thing about it is how nice it stacks in mags, which only satisfies my OCD.

 

As far as skimping on ammo cost, like I keep bringing up, the $5-7k dollar gun is the cheap part and it is expendable.  I will feed it whatever runs, works, and allows me to shoot the most because that's where all my money is actually spent.  

Glad you dont have blowouts. Fact is the 9mm case walls & webb are not as strong as super as it was not designed for the pressures major puts on it. You cant argue that fact. So shooting major in a 9 repeatedly is a higher potential for case failure than a 38 Super, again its facts. So if you choose to take a calculated risk thats your choice. If its worked out then thats great too. I am merely displaying factual info. Oh and by the way My dont skimp comment was directed as a general comment to not skimp and sell you and your gun short no matter what you use. 

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4 hours ago, BallisticianX said:

Glad you dont have blowouts. Fact is the 9mm case walls & webb are not as strong as super as it was not designed for the pressures major puts on it. You cant argue that fact. So shooting major in a 9 repeatedly is a higher potential for case failure than a 38 Super, again its facts. So if you choose to take a calculated risk thats your choice. If its worked out then thats great too. I am merely displaying factual info. Oh and by the way My dont skimp comment was directed as a general comment to not skimp and sell you and your gun short no matter what you use. 

9mm brass is tougher than you are giving it credit for. 38 super is not really designed for the pressures you put on it either. Store bought 38 super is pretty mundane ammo. I probably have 10 or more loadings on some of my 9mm brass with 8 grains of WAC and it still keeps going and going....

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5 hours ago, BallisticianX said:

 9mm cases are not as strong as .38 Super. shooting major in a 9 repeatedly is a higher potential for case failure

 

I'd  guess  that you could pour 10 gr WAC into a 9mm Major chamber, push a

115 gr bullet onto it, tamped down and load a primer in the frizzen pan, and pull the trigger,

the gun would not suffer any damage, without a cartridge case of any type.

 

(I might be wrong ??)

 

Most of us fail to remember that the WWII 9mm loads were almost as hot

as the current 9mm Major loads - and used in P-38's.

 

These new guns, esp the 2011's, are tough and meant to take these pressures.    :) 

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5 hours ago, BallisticianX said:

Glad you dont have blowouts. Fact is the 9mm case walls & webb are not as strong as super as it was not designed for the pressures major puts on it. You cant argue that fact. So shooting major in a 9 repeatedly is a higher potential for case failure than a 38 Super, again its facts. So if you choose to take a calculated risk thats your choice. If its worked out then thats great too. I am merely displaying factual info. Oh and by the way My dont skimp comment was directed as a general comment to not skimp and sell you and your gun short no matter what you use. 

The max pressure of a 9mm+P is 38,500...the max pressure for a 38 super +P is 36,500. Where are you getting your information that 9mm case walls are not as strong as 38 super? Cross sections of cases do not prove your theory.

Brass.jpg

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43 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

The max pressure of a 9mm+P is 38,500...the max pressure for a 38 super +P is 36,500. Where are you getting your information that 9mm case walls are not as strong as 38 super? Cross sections of cases do not prove your theory.

 

 

You are comparing apples to oranges. 9mm Parabellum has max pressures of 34,084 (CIP) and 35,000 (SAAMI). I doubt people are selling "range" brass that is +P. Now, when you are talking about maximum pressure, you are also misleading. Larger case capacity (38 Super and 38 Super Comp) allows for a more full powder burn, especially with a longer barrel. This all increases velocity with a reduction in the pressure spike. In the 9mm Major scenario, you are placing a much bigger spike in the pressure curve to get the bullet out of the barrel fast enough to make major. With the powder compressed up to 120-140%, you are loading them long, which means the ogive is closer to the grooves, which increases the pressure spike even more. 

 

Simply put, 9mm was NEVER designed for flinging a 115 or 124 grain .355-.357 bullet to major power factors. Yes, 9mm +P and 9mm +P+ are, but those are different cases. 

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9 minutes ago, Nevadazielmeister said:

 

You are comparing apples to oranges. 9mm Parabellum has max pressures of 34,084 (CIP) and 35,000 (SAAMI). I doubt people are selling "range" brass that is +P. Now, when you are talking about maximum pressure, you are also misleading. Larger case capacity (38 Super and 38 Super Comp) allows for a more full powder burn, especially with a longer barrel. This all increases velocity with a reduction in the pressure spike. In the 9mm Major scenario, you are placing a much bigger spike in the pressure curve to get the bullet out of the barrel fast enough to make major. With the powder compressed up to 120-140%, you are loading them long, which means the ogive is closer to the grooves, which increases the pressure spike even more. 

 

Simply put, 9mm was NEVER designed for flinging a 115 or 124 grain .355-.357 bullet to major power factors. Yes, 9mm +P and 9mm +P+ are, but those are different cases. 

There is no difference in 9mm and 9mm+P brass, other than the +P stamp on the head stamp. It is the same brass dimensionally. 

 

Pressure is pressure, what you are talking about is volume. Having 35,000 psi in a 25 gallon tank is the same as having 35,000 psi in a 50 gallon tank. It is still 35,000 psi. 

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14 minutes ago, Nevadazielmeister said:

 

You are comparing apples to oranges. 9mm Parabellum has max pressures of 34,084 (CIP) and 35,000 (SAAMI). I doubt people are selling "range" brass that is +P. Now, when you are talking about maximum pressure, you are also misleading. Larger case capacity (38 Super and 38 Super Comp) allows for a more full powder burn, especially with a longer barrel. This all increases velocity with a reduction in the pressure spike. In the 9mm Major scenario, you are placing a much bigger spike in the pressure curve to get the bullet out of the barrel fast enough to make major. With the powder compressed up to 120-140%, you are loading them long, which means the ogive is closer to the grooves, which increases the pressure spike even more. 

 

Simply put, 9mm was NEVER designed for flinging a 115 or 124 grain .355-.357 bullet to major power factors. Yes, 9mm +P and 9mm +P+ are, but those are different cases. 

Amen! Yes it can be done but it's pushing the envelope of what's practical and realistically safe. I've seen enough instances with separated head casings in 9major. That tells something right there.

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17 minutes ago, Nevadazielmeister said:

 

Simply put, 9mm was NEVER designed for flinging a 115 or 124 grain .355-.357 bullet to major power factors. Yes, 9mm +P and 9mm +P+ are, but those are different cases. 

 

Design intent or not the relevant thing is what it's capable of. 9mm+P is not a different case, it's just a different specification for the exact same ammunition that is designed for newer, properly made barrels. The brass has proven itself more than capable in gundesigned to support loads at higher pressure specs. 

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7 hours ago, theWacoKid said:

 

Design intent or not the relevant thing is what it's capable of. 9mm+P is not a different case, it's just a different specification for the exact same ammunition that is designed for newer, properly made barrels. The brass has proven itself more than capable in gundesigned to support loads at higher pressure specs. 

Correct. And, even 9mm+p+ is the same case.

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My 1911s don't come with a "frizzen pan",  although it would be interesting.  Could be a little difficult without a new holster.  :rolleyes:   :rolleyes:

 

Image result for picture of a frizzen pan on a pistol

Edited by Steve RA
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