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Time to upgrade....Dillon or Mark 7?

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I'd personally go with a Dillon. The first set of reasons are:
1. The factory parts are readily available.
2. Dillon's, customer service is unquestionable and is the model for all reloading companies.
3. There is an abundance of high quality after market accessories available.

The second set of reasons have to do with automation. At some point you may want to automate your machine. There are several automation options available, but I will restrict this conversation to Ammobot and Mark 7.

IMHO the scale tips heavily towards the Dillon 1050/Ammobot over the Mark 7 evolutuon in terms of the comparative cost, value and features.

The Ammobot/and brand new Dillon1050 package vs the Mark 7 Evolution + autodrive package is approx $3993 vs $6909 respectively.

A fully tricked out Ammobot with all of the sensors including the bullet sensor, case ejector and case size discriminator costs about $5220.

IMHO, the 1050 and the Ammobot is the better value, it works really well, and the customer service is excellent.

Now I am glad that Mark 7 came out with the Evolution, because it will drive other companies like Dillon to come out with more innovative products, or be left behind.

FYI I don't work for Ammobot, I just like their products.





Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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On 10/31/2018 at 7:22 PM, tanks said:

 

As others have said a lot of information at the thread specific to Evolution. I would say at this point the kinks are worked out, I just received a brand new powder thrower and it is working great.  Now, I have a Revolution (sold the 1050, selling the 650 and keeping the 550 for low volume multi calibers) and at this point very happy with it. The price difference between a similarly equipped 1050 and an Evolution is only about a couple of hundred bucks or so (if you don't include the extras needed for 1050 to function, then Evolution might be cheaper by a few bucks). Not to mention it is fully expandable to all the automation and sensors if needed in the future.

 

If you are loading 3K rounds a month then I'd look at Evolution Pro, after all how much is your time worth? 

 

Thanks. While I certainly won't rule out automation and anything I move to will be automation capable - i'm one of those wierd ones that enjoy the process. It's my de-stresser to tune out the world and go bust out a few hundred rounds here and there when I can.

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I was in the same boat, but today I ordered my Dillon 1050 and have no regrets. 😀

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On 10/27/2018 at 5:19 PM, donttreadonme said:

I mean it's kind of like saying do you want to buy a toyota or an american made car. Dillon's are made out of cheap chinese parts. Mark7 can put out a superior machine that competes in under 4 years with a company that's been around for 40 that right there says the Revolution or Evo has earned your money if you want to be a serious reloader. Just take your ticket and get in line. There wouldn't be a backlog if it wasn't a superior press.

 

You are aware that Toyota's are made in America by Americans, aren't you? 😜

 

Aside from that, your argument could also be turned around to state which company is more likely to be around in 20 years for parts: one that's been in business for 40 years or one that's been in business for 4?  As for back log - there were back log orders for Edsels and Deloreans as well (since we're using autos for comparisons). There are pluses and minuses to both presses.

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I have three Dillon two 550 and a RL 1050 I am very satisfied.
It was Dillon who woke up the reloading market.
The after sales service is at the top lately I sent a photo of two primer early system the plastic had become brittle (over 25 years) I received the 2 system and no charge.
I do not know many manufacturers who change 25-year-old parts for free.
I ordered the M7 EVO directly at the factory, I waited almost 10 months, it is a beautiful machine very well designed, (I disassembled completely).
But the big criticism that I make to M7, they offer catalog parts or accessories that they are unable to deliver to the customer, and it's been a long time that it lasts, without significant improvement.
 

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Posted (edited)

I have a Dillon 1050, and a mark 7 auto drive.  

 

When I call Dillon for support, a friendly human answers and they have taken care of every issue I’ve had.  

 

When I call mark 7, since I don’t have their premium support plan (even though I recently bought a $3K autodrive), I get an answering machine. Sometimes I get get a call back a Couple days later, a few times now I’ve gotten no response at all. I have several issues that have simply never been resolved because they never called me back. Thankfully I haven’t had any serious problems. 

 

Customer  service is important to me...

Edited by Rich406

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I’m in the same boat. Looking to upgrade to either a 1050 or a mark 7. I talked to mark 7 and they said the street price on the Evo will be in the mid 3000s. I believe that comes with the  bullet feeder. The Dillion 1050 with mr bullet looks to be around 2300. Not a huge difference, but 1200 bucks is a decent amount of money. But over a lifetime it’s not.  If money was no object I’d probably get the mark 7. Being able to add the primer collator down the road is really attractive. I had filling primer tubes. Also 10 stages is great. Being able to use a powder check plus the dropper, seater and separate crimp is great. 

 

But Like someone else said, the ammobot is a great value. I’ll probably end up with a 1050, and I’m sure I will be very happy with it. And then add an ammobot down the road. But if I have the money I may go for the Evo. 

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Hey, come on guys, stop talking about the subject matter - let's get back to Toyotas.     🤣     🇺🇸

 

Thanks, srrch, that's a nice write up - some good points to consider.     :cheers:

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Mark 7 is made from aircraft aluminum. Most of the sensors on the Ammobot are 3d printed. Its an over finish/quality difference. Yes the AB will work. Yes the Mark 7 is nicer.

 

AB builds orders as they are received. Mark 7 stocks auto drives and is releasing their own press. AB seems to be concerned with the Mark 7 market share as they create sensors for the Mark 7 autodrives. I dont see mark 7 doing any of that for the AB.

 

4:1 still choose Mark 7 over AB per the recent USPSA Nationals survey.

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I was looking at the options to upgrade to an automated press from my 650 a while back and think that I came up with a pretty decent analogy for the main options.

 

You have the Dillon 1050. It is a bit like a current model Mustang GT. A workhorse with good performance at a reasonable price point.

 

Ammobot + 1050 which is similar to the base model Mustang GT with cloth seats and basic radio. No frills, no comfort or nav package. It will definitely get up and go and get the job done while offer good value for the performance that you get.

 

With the Mk7 + 1050 you get the Mustang GT Premium package with touch screen nav and leather seats. No real performance upgrade but it looks pretty and might make people feel a little more comfortable using it with the touch pad vs control box.

 

Then the Mk7 Evo Pro is more like a M3. You get some fit and finish upgrades with the CNC parts and some additional features such as the extra tool head slot and the primer collator.

 

Prices are estimated for similar build.

Ammobot+1050 is about $3700

Mk7+1050 is about $4500

M7 Evo Pro is $6300

 

All 3 options will provide you with the same basic level of performance (rounds per hour) but it depends on what you want out of it and there is somewhat significant price difference between the levels.

 

I was lusting after the Evo Pro but they increased the price by about $700 right before I pulled the trigger and that was enough to turn me off (and the significantly increased price on the primer collator).  With the 1050, people have engineered workarounds for most of the major bugs. The Evo is still pretty new and I want to give it some time to see how it matures as a product. It is sexy and I do still kinda lust after it. 

 

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On 1/9/2019 at 1:54 PM, Novagunner said:

I was looking at the options to upgrade to an automated press from my 650 a while back and think that I came up with a pretty decent analogy for the main options.

 

You have the Dillon 1050. It is a bit like a current model Mustang GT. A workhorse with good performance at a reasonable price point.

 

Ammobot + 1050 which is similar to the base model Mustang GT with cloth seats and basic radio. No frills, no comfort or nav package. It will definitely get up and go and get the job done while offer good value for the performance that you get.

 

With the Mk7 + 1050 you get the Mustang GT Premium package with touch screen nav and leather seats. No real performance upgrade but it looks pretty and might make people feel a little more comfortable using it with the touch pad vs control box.

 

Then the Mk7 Evo Pro is more like a M3. You get some fit and finish upgrades with the CNC parts and some additional features such as the extra tool head slot and the primer collator.

 

Prices are estimated for similar build.

Ammobot+1050 is about $3700

Mk7+1050 is about $4500

M7 Evo Pro is $6300

 

All 3 options will provide you with the same basic level of performance (rounds per hour) but it depends on what you want out of it and there is somewhat significant price difference between the levels.

 

I was lusting after the Evo Pro but they increased the price by about $700 right before I pulled the trigger and that was enough to turn me off (and the significantly increased price on the primer collator).  With the 1050, people have engineered workarounds for most of the major bugs. The Evo is still pretty new and I want to give it some time to see how it matures as a product. It is sexy and I do still kinda lust after it. 

 

The 1050 plus mr bullet feeder is around 2300, it the manual evo was around say 3000, I could probably justify it. Being that it’s 3500-4000, I just can’t. I’m only a few years out of school, still early in my career not making a ton of money. Buying a new house very soon (on 15 acres so my own private gun range and huge reloading room). Wife wants kids soon. The difference in price over a lifetime is pretty small. But  I probably shouldn’t even be buying a 1050 now, my loadmaster is absolutely been a great press, contrary to what you usually read. Only reason I want to upgrade is I want a case feeder that holds more then 100rds and same with a bullet feeder. If I was making more money, say 10 years into my career with a better salary and a decent savings, I could probably swing the mark 7. Im sure I’ll be very happy as with a 1050. Everyone says Dillion’s are so great. My loadmaster has been great, so I imagine the 1050 is gonna be perfect. 

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I would get a 1050 and throw a Mark 7 autodrive on it and call it a day. Dillon support is the best and they really support the shooting sports. 

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On 1/9/2019 at 8:53 AM, Maximis228 said:

Mark 7 is made from aircraft aluminum. Most of the sensors on the Ammobot are 3d printed. Its an over finish/quality difference. Yes the AB will work. Yes the Mark 7 is nicer.

 

AB builds orders as they are received. Mark 7 stocks auto drives and is releasing their own press. AB seems to be concerned with the Mark 7 market share as they create sensors for the Mark 7 autodrives. I dont see mark 7 doing any of that for the AB.

 

4:1 still choose Mark 7 over AB per the recent USPSA Nationals survey

I will put the quality of the AmmoBot sensors against others any day.  There is nothing wrong with 3d printing parts that make sense to be 3d printed.  They are generally stronger than injected parts when printed with the correct material and correctly designed. BTW, most of the plastics used to make injected and printed parts are the same.

AmmoBot is made from steel. The 1050 is made from ductile iron.  Lets make sure we are equating machine to machine.

AB does not create ANY sensors for the M7.  ImmortoBot has built an adapter cable that allows their sensors to be used on the M7...and they sell well. 

ImmortoBot actually completely understands how the M7 sensors work which is why, when customers asked,  an adapter was produced.  M7 sensors can also be used on the AB, again, via an adapter cable from ImmortoBot.  This is because of the expandability of the AB over any other press. 

Speaking of expandable,  another two companies have now produced other sensors for the AmmoBot, that makes four companies beside AmmoBot making things for them to make loading and processing easier.  Let's count sensors now:  1 Berdan (decap), 2 Primer Pocket Probe, 3 Primer level (comes with the machine), 4 Powder hopper level, 5 Powder check, 6 Bullet Orientation (which also monitors case feed to the plate), 7 Case Discriminator, 8 Stepped brass (which also provides a bunch of other checks), 9 COAL.  Don't forget the Case extractor for removing failed brass from the machine automatically.   There are even more coming from ImmortoBot and others as well.

Wondered how long before the USPSA "survey" results started showing up here as "proof"...again, like last year, to view those tiny numbers as meaningful in anyway is hilarious. 
Faster, more sensors, more expandable, more affordable...and support not hidden in "private" forums...Ammobot.

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Real classy immortalarms, if anyone did that on a post about your junky Dillon ad on you would throw a temper tantrum.

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Well this is essentially a USPSA forum, so things going on in USPSA tend to be important here.

 

Also Metal > Plastic in most cases.

 

This is the Android Vs. Apple Argument when comparing Autodrives. AB doesnt offer a press. M7 does. Op asked about going with a 1050 or the Evo.

 

 

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Mark forgot to add that ammobot also has the most paid shills

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To the op, Dillon isn't made for automation. Mark 7 created a great way to upgrade it and a few other scrubs followed suit. The automation showed some flaws in the 1050 design which the Mark 7 presses have addressed. So do you want a press that was designed and manufactured to be automated or do you want a press that has been adapted to automation?

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As I said earlier.  I own two 1050 Pro's, 1 650 Pro and 1 Evo Pro.  

The Evo is light years ahead of the 1050s in quality of construction.  It just runs smoother and faster.  A lot faster. 
Actual throughput on my 1050 Pro when loading 38 supercomp is about 1700 rph due to the limits of the 1050s. 
Sloppy tolerances and a shell plate advance that just can't really handle a case FULL of powder at a speed far above what the machine was designed to do.   
My first run of ammo on the Mark 7  EVO clocked in at an actual 2350 rounds per hour output with nearly zero powder spillage.  

The number of Mark 7 autodrives numbers in the thousands now.  

The number of Evos is also in the thousands now

Were the folks are Mark 7 caught a little on their heels with the huge sales?  Sure.  Any new company would be.  I am personal, close friends with the owner. 
He and his growing team are working each and every day to make their customer support the new industry standard.  I am 100% confident they will make that happen.

If the OP wants to talk, shoot me a PM and I will give you my phone number.  You are welcome to give me a call if you have any questions.    

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26 minutes ago, Maximis228 said:

Well this is essentially a USPSA forum, so things going on in USPSA tend to be important here.

 

Also Metal > Plastic in most cases.

 

This is the Android Vs. Apple Argument when comparing Autodrives. AB doesnt offer a press. M7 does. Op asked about going with a 1050 or the Evo.

 

 

Again, looks at those numbers vs competitors at Nats.  When your responses are below 1% of respondents, they are statistically insignificant. 

Depends on the application of the material for the job at hand so no, metal>plastic is most cases.

A more affordable open architecture, lots of support, lots of options available that appear far in advance of the closed, much more expensive system...yeah Android/Apple is pretty appropriate.

No, AmmoBot does not offer a press because the 1050 works just find for 100s of thousands of users around the world with a robust aftermarket,  parts availability and options.

Yes, the Op asked that and you decided to go off and provide incorrect information about AmmoBot which deserves correction so the the OP can make an informed decision.

 

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You are right. Its awesome to go to 12 different vendors to get stuff for my 1050s to run decently. Its much preferred to do it that way... 🙄

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6 hours ago, ImmortalArms said:

Again, looks at those numbers vs competitors at Nats.  When your responses are below 1% of respondents, they are statistically insignificant. 

Depends on the application of the material for the job at hand so no, metal>plastic is most cases.

A more affordable open architecture, lots of support, lots of options available that appear far in advance of the closed, much more expensive system...yeah Android/Apple is pretty appropriate.

No, AmmoBot does not offer a press because the 1050 works just find for 100s of thousands of users around the world with a robust aftermarket,  parts availability and options.

Yes, the Op asked that and you decided to go off and provide incorrect information about AmmoBot which deserves correction so the the OP can make an informed decision.

 

Maybe y’all should design a press, and only charge say 2500 for it. If it was more stations then the 1050, and addressed some of its shortcomings I’d be all over it. I’ll even beta test it free of charge, all I need is the press lol. 

 

 

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I had a RL 1050 (not automated) and upgraded to Evolution Pro. Couldn't be happier and if you want an automated press, it's better to go with a press that is designed for automation from the beginning instead of getting a 30 year old design that was never intended for automation and needs various 3rd party accessories to keep it running even with no automation.

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