Moon Clip sizing

[KrakenFan69]

So I have a bunch of Winchester 38 Special brass.    I had thought of picking up some Starline and TK Custom clips.   Will the TK Custom for Winchester fit as tight as the Tk clips for Starline do?   Everything I read mentions Winchester having a larger gap than most other brass yet the clips made for it are 0.20 while the Starline are 0.25.   How does that figure?

 

Thanks,

Kraken Fan #69

[GMM50]

The grove used by the moon clip to hold the case is NOT part of the SAAMI cartridge specification.  So cartridge manufacturers can make it ant width and diameter they want and change it when ever they want.

It used to be (10 years ago) that Winchester wanted 020 or 022 thick moon clips.

Remington and Federal wanted 025 and Starline something line 040.

 

I use 38 short colt from Starline and they work well with 025.

 

BMT has this application note:  http://bmtequipped.com/docs/BMT N38-8 FUNCTION EVAL 1.pdf

Revolver supply has this: http://www.revolversupply.com/blog/38357-moon-clip-thickness/

And TK has this: https://www.tkcustom.com/resources/faq-s

 

I believe that the brass manufacturers are changing their cases to support moon clips.

So all the above information might be changing.

 

[Mcfoto]

I am subscribing as I’m in a similar situation. Shot mostly Winchester and Blazer leading up to reloading so that’s the brass I saved. Going from speedloaders to moon clips and now find that all those Winchester’s are red - headed stepchildren. Considering starting over with new Starline SC and keep the .38 sp brass for Classic.

[Brian B]

Overthinking a potential solution to a potential problem may be the issue here? TK Moon clips (stainless) are my choice for: S&W 627, 610, 929 and Ruger Redhawk 45Acp/Colt. I use reloaded range brass including a wide variety of manufacturers. I’ve shot thousands of rounds without a problem. I use Federal factory ammo for competitions. Extended, competition firing pins are installed in the S&W revolvers. BMT is an excellent tool and I have one for each caliber. Try: ICORE, IDPA, IPSC, PPC, great people and lots of fun.


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[Mcfoto]

27 minutes ago, Brian B said:

Overthinking a potential solution to a potential problem may be the issue here? TK Moon clips (stainless) are my choice for: S&W 627, 610, 929 and Ruger Redhawk 45Acp/Colt. I use reloaded range brass including a wide variety of manufacturers. I’ve shot thousands of rounds without a problem.

 

Thank you for being the voice of reason. Of course, I had planned this winter's off-season to be "experiment" time with all this moon-clip business. But the point of this forum is that a newb can learn from the old salts and perhaps avoid some trial and tribulation.

[MWP]

1 hour ago, Mcfoto said:

I am subscribing as I’m in a similar situation. Shot mostly Winchester and Blazer leading up to reloading so that’s the brass I saved. Going from speedloaders to moon clips and now find that all those Winchester’s are red - headed stepchildren. Considering starting over with new Starline SC and keep the .38 sp brass for Classic.

If you want to be serious about your reloads, that's the best choice.  Starline SC is top quality, and the fit to proper clips is second to none. 

 

You could always save the special brass for steel challenge as well, where you don't have to load on the clock. 

[MikeyScuba]

That's what I did for my wife's 686 cut for moons, Starline brass and TK moons.  Didn't expect such a wait for the brass though.

[PatJones]

I gave all my Winchester brass away a few years ago. It's not very well suited for moonclip use, too small an undercut.

[pskys2]

If you want the best possible speed reloads use a known brand of brass with moon clips sized for them.  They will hold the cases stiff and make speed reloads much easier. 

If you want to use the most number of brands of brass the moon clips must be made thinner and the cartridges will flop within them, this does not lead to fast speed reloads.

One reason why most have settled on Hearthco/TK moon slips sized for Starline 38 brass.  Starline brass has been very consistent over the years and since you only lose brass due to splits or the occasional lost moon clip the cost is good.

I've even used 357 magnum starline brass and Hearthco moon clips in competition and noticed no big difference in reload times vs short colt.  

But using different brands of 38 special/357 magnum brass in moon clips that will work makes it virtually impossible to have consistent speed reloads.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

On 10/18/2018 at 1:53 AM, KrakenFan69 said:

So I have a bunch of Winchester 38 Special brass.    I had thought of picking up some Starline and TK Custom clips.   Will the TK Custom for Winchester fit as tight as the Tk clips for Starline do?   Everything I read mentions Winchester having a larger gap than most other brass yet the clips made for it are 0.20 while the Starline are 0.25.   How does that figure?

 

Thanks,

Kraken Fan #69

If you want to swap your Winchester for my Starline, send a PM.  I only load 38spl for snub nose practice so brass makes no difference

[hearthco]

In the very early days of Hearthco Moonclips, the most consistent brass to use was Remington. The concept of specific clip and brass combinations was not popular at that time as many competitors wanted the "one clip fits all" clip. 

Then a handful of Ca. shooters and my Very good friend, Vic Pickett, discovered that  the edm clips were very consistent and matched up well with the Rem brass. 

Eventually, shooters chose .Star-line as it was also very consistent and readily available. The Star-line brass had a smaller groove diameter so it required its own clip geometry.

 

[SteelShooten]

On 10/18/2018 at 12:53 AM, KrakenFan69 said:

So I have a bunch of Winchester 38 Special brass.    I had thought of picking up some Starline and TK Custom clips.   Will the TK Custom for Winchester fit as tight as the Tk clips for Starline do?   Everything I read mentions Winchester having a larger gap than most other brass yet the clips made for it are 0.20 while the Starline are 0.25.   How does that figure?

 

Thanks,

Kraken Fan #69

What sources are saying Winchester 38s "having a larger gap"? 

 

For the longest time, Winchester 38s have had a .020/.022 wide relief, making them incompatible with the .025" clips I have.    I've essentially used the Win brass for speedloader-only guns.   It was not worth getting weaker (thinner) clips that wouldn't work well with anything else.

With the increase in 7 and 8 round guns that favor moonclips , I think Winchester may have made a change and increased the width of the relief on the more recently made brass.

 

Sorting through my Winchester brass, I found a newer case and tried it in a moonclip.  It does fit a .025" clip reasonably well.   Older brass does not.

 

R-P, Federal, GFL all work well with the .025" clips.    I also have some 10 year old S&B that fits really well.  Recently manufactured S&B brass is often too tight; width is OK but the undercut diameter is large.

 

Maybe they meant that Winchester was making their gap larger (than before).

 

 

 

 

 

[KrakenFan69]

I may have been mistaken, not sure where I read that now.  

 

Round Gun, I appreciate the offer but I live in Canada and it would likely make it more a pain than its worth.

 

Kraken Fan #69

[uncledoc]

Thanks OP for the question . . . My GP100 (38/357) is being cut for moon clips and I was planning to use Winchester brass.  I will have to return my moon clips to TK and exchange for the Starline brass.  I appreciate the experienced replies . . .